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  1. #91
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    I think there's a bad generalization out there that only Ni-doms can be uber-mystical people.

    I myself used to fall for that trap, and typed as INTJ in large part because of that, or at least as ISTP in a Ti-Ni loop.

    But then again, on the whole, using functions to supposedly justify a typing doesn't seem quite as effective as going by actual personality traits.

    If you have the natural tendencies of a certain type, you should also have the same functions in my opinion, despite what others choose (or choose not) to see.

  2. #92
    A snowstorm is coming... Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    It's hard for me to tell, because they say or do things that contradict that... but i can never know if that's just because people's beliefs don't always line up logically and make coherent sense.
    I get that. As I said, I have the same issue with your breed

    If at all possible, and you know that they are INTJ, try to think with Te. Is it logical for someone who values external facts and systems to state such a thing? And if not, then what possibly could motivate them to say such a thing? Is it your relationship with them, is it that they are bored, is it that you peeved them in some way, what?
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  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Did I mention the condescension issue?
    It seems respecting choice is often misread as being condescending. If someone has decided they want to eat shit, I let them. The alternative, which is telling them to stop eating shit (if they want to associate with me), seems far more condescending to me as it invalidates their choice. Also, I see eating shit as a symptom of an underlying character flaw. So, whether they stop eating it or not, they are unlikely to be the kind of person I would want to associate with anyway. One might call that condescension, but then having a distaste for shit must also be condescension - and who would want to argue that?

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    As @Zarathustra said, you might be wise to doubt your intuition, but not ours. Moreover, I at least never trust it without question. If I don't have the means to answer those questions, though, and it is an area where my intuition has been right on in the past, I will trust it when a decision needs to be made. This is Ni and Te working together, with obvious influences of Fi and Se as well (considering available facts, and understanding the need/value of acting to support a goal).
    Please, the last thing I need to be doing is bowing down before those who have bigger brains than my own, simply because "I'm wrong and they're right".

    If you really think that it's wise for me to not question those higher up in the social-intellectual heirarchy, then you're just as foolish in certain ways as you may be wise and perceptive in other ones.

    Of course, you still will question yourself, and probably do a better job with it than at least 90% of people or so, but that doesn't mean you should have all confidence in certain things just because the evidence and your reasoning all integrated together supposedly make it a certainty.

    Combine all this, and you have INTJs in a nutshell.
    Although I don't know much about Russell, it's worth noting that I've seen a few experts type him as an ENTP rather than an INTJ. So perhaps then it's INTJs and ENTPs in a nutshell, or it it all NTs, or is it just all intelligent people of any type in general? My best guess is that it's the last option I previously mentioned.

  5. #95
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Welp, I use Fi for that. Its one of the reasons I'll reserve judgement till I've seen most of what the person is about, till ive seen him in several situations, seen several responses etc, so I can figure out what his values are, whats important to him and what he is likely to be able to laugh at and what the pain points are. And that becomes like my baseline for all my interactions with them, giving me a gauge to see what they are likely to joke about.

    I know that with NTPs, if I get a chance to do an elaborate personality map like detailed above, I'm way more capable of anticipating their jokes, identifying them as such and even join in. If I have nothing on record yet (si?) on them, it is a *lot* harder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I get that. As I said, I have the same issue with your breed

    If at all possible, and you know that they are INTJ, try to think with Te. Is it logical for someone who values external facts and systems to state such a thing? And if not, then what possibly could motivate them to say such a thing? Is it your relationship with them, is it that they are bored, is it that you peeved them in some way, what?
    Well, I hung around him for 8.5 months , and he became more and more inscrutable to me, even as aspects of him became more clear. He was also kind of a dishonest person in some ways, so that I'm sure was part of it. And he was a high functioning schizophrenic. I'd probably have an easier time with a normal INTJ. I'll keep in mind the Te and Fi bits. I also have a hard time telling how serious people are in general. I can never really tell with the ISFP, except that I've learned that they say outrageous things all the time just for fun, and to assume that they don't really mean anything they say.

  6. #96
    A snowstorm is coming... Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    It seems respecting choice is often misread as being condescending. If someone has decided they want to eat shit, I let them. The alternative, which is telling them to stop eating shit (if they want to associate with me), seems far more condescending to me as it invalidates their choice. Also, I see eating shit as a symptom of an underlying character flaw. So, whether they stop eating it or not, they are unlikely to be the kind of person I would want to associate with anyway. One might call that condescension, but then having a distaste for shit must also be condescension - and who would want to argue that?
    Im glad you added your interpretation from your side.

    While your perspective is certainly a welcome addition to further unravel this common misunderstanding, my point stands.

    Condescension, the perception of condescension and the experience of said presumed condescension are still often a communication issue when interacting with INTJs. Whether the condescension is in fact there or not. Which will then likely affect the INTJs likability.
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  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Condescension, the perception of condescension and the experience of said presumed condescension are still often an communication issue when interacting with INTJs. Whether the condescension is in fact there or not.
    Certainly true.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I get that. As I said, I have the same issue with your breed
    Now I'm intersted, actually. What have you noticed? Is it that we're not as logical as we claim we are?

    I don't think I'm a logical person all the time. Sometimes my emotions are really powerful, even uncontrollable. I actually started a thread about that. Actually, I'm like a puppy or a five year old or something inside, it seems.
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  9. #99
    A snowstorm is coming... Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Now I'm intersted, actually. What have you noticed? Is it that we're not as logical as we claim we are?

    I don't think I'm a logical person all the time. Sometimes my emotions are really powerful, even uncontrollable. I actually started a thread about that. Actually, I'm like a puppy or a five year old or something inside, it seems.
    You are. And while Im capable of recognizing that, I also find that I lack the knowledge or natural inclinations or methods needed to 'handle' the way you prefer your emotions handled, which makes it hard to 'joke' with you guys
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I also have a hard time telling how serious people are in general.
    I use a lot of sarcasm on here.... do you pick up on that or not, or are you just constantly confused as to how much of a jackass as I am? In person it's probably more obvious.
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