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  1. #81
    Member Elaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    It seems to me you don't recognise we are succeeding in removing hunger and replacing it with prosperity.

    It seems to me you have a sentimental attachment to hunger and frankly you don't care how to replace hunger with prosperity.

    Luckily, we do.
    Perhaps you misinterpreted me. I have no sentimental attachments to anything, and I do care about the prosperity of nations. I just based what I said on my personal experience. Personal greed can only help if one sees the big picture( like, I want more money, so I will sacrafice them right now to get much more in the future) . But it only brings things apart when people see only what' s in front of them( and that' s what the majority of people are like) .
    In my country, Ukraine, there is poverty, even though we have resources to develop our industry and agriculture. Yet, all our politicians care about is stealing public money, and most times when they try to do something in the parliament, it ends in a fight. In the end, our industry and agriculture is not developing at all, and all we' re capable of is just making celebrations and cultural events, which consume budget even more. To make it worse, the European Union( if there are Europeans who support EU in it' s decision concerning this, I' m sorry, but I' m just voicing my opinion) gives us highly unbeneficial conditions in order for us to enter it. And while politicians are bickering about whether they should join Russia or EU, people just blindly make agitations that support going to EU. If they were a little bit smarter, they would' ve understood that both EU and Russia aren' t going to help us get out of the crisis, and we have to work it out on our own. Tell me, how can personal greed help here? If the politicians continue fighting, nothing' s going to happen, but if they could discuss everything peacefully and thought more of the future, then maybe things wouldn' t have been that bad. However, such task is unfullfillable since most of them are ignorant morons anyway. And smart people just don' t have the possibility to reach power.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaine View Post
    Perhaps you misinterpreted me. I have no sentimental attachments to anything, and I do care about the prosperity of nations. I just based what I said on my personal experience. Personal greed can only help if one sees the big picture( like, I want more money, so I will sacrafice them right now to get much more in the future) . But it only brings things apart when people see only what' s in front of them( and that' s what the majority of people are like) .
    In my country, Ukraine, there is poverty, even though we have resources to develop our industry and agriculture. Yet, all our politicians care about is stealing public money, and most times when they try to do something in the parliament, it ends in a fight. In the end, our industry and agriculture is not developing at all, and all we' re capable of is just making celebrations and cultural events, which consume budget even more. To make it worse, the European Union( if there are Europeans who support EU in it' s decision concerning this, I' m sorry, but I' m just voicing my opinion) gives us highly unbeneficial conditions in order for us to enter it. And while politicians are bickering about whether they should join Russia or EU, people just blindly make agitations that support going to EU. If they were a little bit smarter, they would' ve understood that both EU and Russia aren' t going to help us get out of the crisis, and we have to work it out on our own. Tell me, how can personal greed help here? If the politicians continue fighting, nothing' s going to happen, but if they could discuss everything peacefully and thought more of the future, then maybe things wouldn' t have been that bad. However, such task is unfullfillable since most of them are ignorant morons anyway. And smart people just don' t have the possibility to reach power.
    You are in a difficult position with the Russian Bear looking over your shoulder. We watch the news about Ukraine and see the tug of war between the West and the East.

    However I would like to address your question of personal greed.

    If you care to read the book, "The Wealth of Nations", published in 1776, by the Scotsman, John Smith, you will find a map for creating public prosperity from private greed.

    "The Wealth of Nations", shows how private greed leads to public prosperity, but only under the conditions of regulated and competitive capitalism.

    "The Wealth of Nations", has led many nations to prosperity, in the last 20 years more than 200 million Chinese have moved from poverty to prosperity.

    We watch Ukraine today and hold our breath as you go through a dangerous political crisis.

  3. #83
    Senior Member two cents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    Why just women? Cuz they have babies?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    Educating women promotes equality and reduces tribalism and local violence, and provides a more stable environment for pro-social activities like agriculture.
    Also, it makes women want/be able to have less babies. Overpopulation is a thing, and it's notable that people in First World countries stop breeding like rabbits.

    Educating women enables them to have more control over their lives, both productive and reproductive, so while on the one hand you gain qualified labor (and when a greater proportion of the population is able to be productive, there's more to go around), on the other hand your population stabilizes and the resources you have don't need to keep stretching to accommodate an ever-growing number of people.
    And that's my two cents on the subject.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by two cents View Post
    Also, it makes women want/be able to have less babies. Overpopulation is a thing, and it's notable that people in First World countries stop breeding like rabbits.

    Educating women enables them to have more control over their lives, both productive and reproductive, so while on the one hand you gain qualified labor (and when a greater proportion of the population is able to be productive, there's more to go around), on the other hand your population stabilizes and the resources you have don't need to keep stretching to accommodate an ever-growing number of people.
    In the last 20 years more than 200 million Chinese have moved out of poverty.

    I don't think it has anything to do with educating women, but has everything to do with regulated, competitive capitalism.

  5. #85
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Number of people on planet Earth:

    7 Billion (2011)
    6 Billion (1999)
    5 Billion: 1987
    4 Billion: 1974
    3 Billion: 1960
    2 Billion: 1927
    1 Billion: 1804

    It is unlikely that we will solve world hunger soon/ever. We're lucky if we don't blow ourselves off the face of this planet with bombs and shit.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Number of people on planet Earth:

    7 Billion (2011)
    6 Billion (1999)
    5 Billion: 1987
    4 Billion: 1974
    3 Billion: 1960
    2 Billion: 1927
    1 Billion: 1804

    It is unlikely that we will solve world hunger soon/ever. We're lucky if we don't blow ourselves off the face of this planet with bombs and shit.
    The economic facts are against you as we are moving people out of poverty by the millions.

    And the military facts are against you as there are less and less wars every year.

    So why are you pushing doom and gloom? Are you suffering from clinical depression or have you just bought the ideology du jour?

  7. #87
    Senior Member two cents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    In the last 20 years more than 200 million Chinese have moved out of poverty.

    I don't think it has anything to do with educating women, but has everything to do with regulated, competitive capitalism.
    Just out of curiosity, what economic structure do you think most third world countries have? Are you suggesting they are all commies or something?

    China's success can be chalked up to their concerted effort to educate their populace (ALL of them, no one here is suggesting only women should be educated, only that they shouldn't be left out of education as they currently are in most, if not all, of the most impoverished places), AND to their concerted effort to build infrastructure throughout the country. By infrastructure, I mean not only roads, bridges, water/sewage/electrical systems, schools/public buildings, etc, but also softer things like training bureaucrats to keep records (which cause the infrastructure to be built and maintained in an orderly fashion) and teachers and factory workers, and creating frameworks to "plug" these people into so they could do their jobs. All of this requires an enormous effort in planning and building, which China invested into for many decades.

    Once you do that, maybe the "regulated competitive capitalism" has some chance to actually work to deliver goods to people, but a) it's just window dressing and b) it's arguable that China even has that, as the political/economic structure they do have most closely resembles fascism (please don't jump to Nazis, if you don't know what political/economic fascism looks like, read about it first).
    And that's my two cents on the subject.

  8. #88
    Member Elaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    You are in a difficult position with the Russian Bear looking over your shoulder. We watch the news about Ukraine and see the tug of war between the West and the East.

    However I would like to address your question of personal greed.

    If you care to read the book, "The Wealth of Nations", published in 1776, by the Scotsman, John Smith, you will find a map for creating public prosperity from private greed.

    "The Wealth of Nations", shows how private greed leads to public prosperity, but only under the conditions of regulated and competitive capitalism.

    "The Wealth of Nations", has led many nations to prosperity, in the last 20 years more than 200 million Chinese have moved from poverty to prosperity.

    We watch Ukraine today and hold our breath as you go through a dangerous political crisis.
    It has nothing to do with Russia. We are independent from it. It has politicians making totally dumb decicions out of sheer greed, even though it would later lead to the country' s collapse, and people wanting something which will only make it worse. Also stop portraying the EU as nice goodie - goodies. They are as bad as Russia, and put us conditions that are highly unbeneficial for our people and industry. Both EU and Russia want us to be their puppets, and don' t try to deny it! I personally believe we' d better stay independent from everyone, but not everyone agrees with me.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaine View Post
    It has nothing to do with Russia. We are independent from it. It has politicians making totally dumb decicions out of sheer greed, even though it would later lead to the country' s collapse, and people wanting something which will only make it worse. Also stop portraying the EU as nice goodie - goodies. They are as bad as Russia, and put us conditions that are highly unbeneficial for our people and industry. Both EU and Russia want us to be their puppets, and don' t try to deny it! I personally believe we' d better stay independent from everyone, but not everyone agrees with me.
    I hardly need tell you Australia wishes the Ukraine well.

    However President Putin wants Russia to become a world power once again. To do this he needs the Ukraine.

    If President Putin fails to get the Ukraine, his dream of Russia as a world power is over.

    On the other hand Western Europe can take the Ukraine or leave it, whatever the Ukraine decides, it won't affect the European Union.

    Australia is an island Continent and we have no borders with any nation.

    Although, I confide in you, we have a stone fort in the middle of Sydney Harbour to defend against the Russian Fleet. The Russin Fleet never came, and we are left with this lovely little stone fort in the middle of one of the most beautiful harbours in the world.

    We wish you well but the Ukrainian people have some very difficult decisions to make.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by two cents View Post
    Once you do that, maybe the "regulated competitive capitalism" has some chance to actually work to deliver goods to people, but a) it's just window dressing and b) it's arguable that China even has that, as the political/economic structure they do have most closely resembles fascism (please don't jump to Nazis, if you don't know what political/economic fascism looks like, read about it first).
    China has adopted half of the values of the West. China has adopted economic freedom but not political equality.

    So China is following in the footsteps of the Wealth of Nations published in 1776.

    China is our biggest trading partner and has made us rich.

    But this is just the beginning. India is now following in the footsteps of the Wealth of Nations and enriching us further. And gosh, the fourth biggest country in the world, Indonesia, is following the path of the Wealth of Nations and making us even richer.

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