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  1. #101
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    I disagree with DiscoBiscuit and agree with AzulEyes. DiscoBiscuit, if I have understood correctly, is a libertarian. The guru of the libertarians is Ayn Rand, she would not give a bone to a dog.

    Why we haven't solved world hunger? Because the power in this world is in greedy, libertarian hands. The world hunger is perfectly solvable. Give your money to the poor. If you do not have poor people in your own family, give the money to the strangers.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    if I have understood correctly

  3. #103

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    Because too many people in third world countries are anorexic. They'll just throw it up.

  4. #104
    Senior Member two cents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    China has adopted half of the values of the West. China has adopted economic freedom but not political equality.

    So China is following in the footsteps of the Wealth of Nations published in 1776.

    China is our biggest trading partner and has made us rich.

    But this is just the beginning. India is now following in the footsteps of the Wealth of Nations and enriching us further. And gosh, the fourth biggest country in the world, Indonesia, is following the path of the Wealth of Nations and making us even richer.
    Several things. First, this is the quickest thing I could find about the economics of fascism, on wikipedia:
    [Fascism] advocates a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky) to secure national self-sufficiency and independence through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[13] Fascism supports what is sometimes called a Third Position (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position) between capitalism and Marxist socialism.[14]
    Mostly, what happens, is everything becomes nationalized and driven by an autocratic government. Large business interests become merged (and indistinguishable from) government interests. Economy is heavily regulated to favor big business interests over those of small businesses and average citizens, and small/private enterprise is largely discouraged.

    This is precisely what we see in China.

    Their economy is very heavily regulated and dictated from the top. They don't actually have much economic freedom, unless you think "economic freedom" is synonymous with "big business interests". They definitely don't have anything even remotely resembling "laissez faire" capitalism that you appear to favor.

    And as far as "making us rich", they do so through the wide availability of very cheap (to us) labor. What they are supplying, along with India, Indonesia, and other places we outsource a lot of labor to is the 20th/21st century version of slavery.

    It's not surprising that having de-facto slave labor to minimize costs and maximize profits would make U.S. and other first world corporations rich. It certainly doesn't mean anything positive about the countries supplying said labor, or the living conditions in those countries. In fact, as labor costs increase in those labor-supplying countries due to getting foreign money, corporations increasingly look for other, cheaper, places to outsource to. Nobody benefits from this system except the already very very rich who control the profits of these corporations.
    And that's my two cents on the subject.

  5. #105
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    But I have religious beliefs surrounding all of this- so I can't really use that as an argument in a public forum like this. But my personal beliefs tell me that we are on a test / journey in this life. And feeding the poor is part of what is commanded of us. If I can give a cup of rice, than I should give a cup. If you can give a barrel- you should give a barrel. Everyone should do their share.
    I kind of get this, but when you make generalities, I take issue. If you framed your issues around your belief system, I would just let it pass. IE> If you want to claim people who share your belief system aren't practicing what they preach, have at it.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by two cents View Post
    Several things. First, this is the quickest thing I could find about the economics of fascism, on wikipedia:

    Mostly, what happens, is everything becomes nationalized and driven by an autocratic government. Large business interests become merged (and indistinguishable from) government interests. Economy is heavily regulated to favor big business interests over those of small businesses and average citizens, and small/private enterprise is largely discouraged.

    This is precisely what we see in China.

    Their economy is very heavily regulated and dictated from the top. They don't actually have much economic freedom, unless you think "economic freedom" is synonymous with "big business interests". They definitely don't have anything even remotely resembling "laissez faire" capitalism that you appear to favor.

    And as far as "making us rich", they do so through the wide availability of very cheap (to us) labor. What they are supplying, along with India, Indonesia, and other places we outsource a lot of labor to is the 20th/21st century version of slavery.

    It's not surprising that having de-facto slave labor to minimize costs and maximize profits would make U.S. and other first world corporations rich. It certainly doesn't mean anything positive about the countries supplying said labor, or the living conditions in those countries. In fact, as labor costs increase in those labor-supplying countries due to getting foreign money, corporations increasingly look for other, cheaper, places to outsource to. Nobody benefits from this system except the already very very rich who control the profits of these corporations.
    I don't support Laissez Faire capitalism anymore than John Smith in his Wealth of Nations supported Laissez Faire capitalism, rather, like John Smith, I support regulated and competitive capitalism.

    China is rising, India is rising, Indonesia is rising. All three are following John Smith. and India is the biggest democracy in the world, and Indonesia, the fourth largest country in the world, is also a democracy.

    We are pleased to see China is moving out of poverty into prosperity and we would like to see China become democratic, however, at the moment the Chinese Communist Party is determined to hang onto power. However note: the Chinese Communist Party is no longer Marxist/Leninist.

    Nothing is possible with poverty, but prosperity makes many things possible.

    I might point out that Australia practises regulated and competitive capitalism and as a result we have been growing non stop for 23 years. The USA unfortunately did not practise regulated capitalism and as a result threw the world into a recession. And the USA and most OECD countries had to bail out their banks and financial institutions, but Australia kept on growing through the world recession and did not have to bail out one bank or financial institution - thanks to John Smith.

  7. #107
    Member Elaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Putin regrets the loss of the Soviet Union which was a world power. And Putin wants Russia to be a world power once again. I am not saying Putin wants to dominate the world, I am saying he wants Russia to be one world power among equals.

    And the second point: when we had a spoken culture we thought intuitively and so we intuitively thought greed was bad and called it usury and blamed it on the Jews.

    However when we invented universal literacy we started to think counter intuitively and it became plain that greed through the charging of interest and compound interest drove the capitalist, industrial machine.

    And so we moved from intuitive usury to counter-intuitive interest. However this only works with regulation and competition.
    For a leader wanting their country to be powerful is natural. Besides, I don' t care whether it is Russia, America, China, or any other country that is world power unless this is my country( which is of course impossible) . The situation for us will suck either way.
    Also, tell me what do you mean by the word intuitive: what it means in the context of MBTI or some subjective feeling?
    Also, it' s not just morality that indicates that greed is unbeneficial, but simple logical patterns. Greed makes one care only about themselves, but not for the rest. If the rest gets no advantage for themselves, they will never work together. Working together leads to more productive results. I gave you the example of my country and it' s politicians, but it doesn' t do any good to other people. Tell me, what kind of regulation and competition should we get in order to make the thing you' re talking about work.
    And still, you didn' t give me a detailed, logical explanation in how does greed lead to the prosperity of many.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherezade View Post
    i`m gonna guess you`re 16 !
    am i right? am i ?
    Yes, I am 16. So what? That doesn' t mean I' m some angsty emo or preppy idiot who thinks only about singing, dancing, fashion and boys! I know what problems are, and I' m capable of seeking a logical solution. Don' t judge a person by their age.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaine View Post
    Yes, I am 16. So what? That doesn' t mean I' m some angsty emo or preppy idiot who thinks only about singing, dancing, fashion and boys! I know what problems are, and I' m capable of seeking a logical solution. Don' t judge a person by their age.
    On the internet we are disembodied. On the internet we are no longer female or male or young or old.

    This is disguised by the fact that most are here to titillate their sexuality and to belong to a peer group.

    So the internet is wonderful in that we are no long bound by time and distance and no longer bound by our age, interestingly.

    So members of Typology Central of all ages can speak to each other as equals.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaine View Post
    tell me what do you mean by the word intuitive.
    We perceive by making distinctions. And the more distinctions we make, the more we see. And the distinction here is intuitive/counter-intuitive.

    So here, intuitive means natural and counter-intuitive means unnatural.

    For instance, we naturally learn to use the telephone at home, but by contrast, we unnaturally are compelled by State law to attend a special institution, called a school, away from home, with specially trained staff, called teachers.

    So the telephone is intuitive or natural, and reading and writing is counter-intuitive or unnatural.

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