[MBTI General] INTJ/INFJ relationships

[autumnandtherain]

Anyone had any experience and insight on how INTJs and INFJs work together romantically?

I'm interested in an INTJ and was wondering what you look for in a relationship, how you express romantic interest in someone, etc. I know not all of you INTJs are heartless cynics.

 

[violaine]

I'm an INFJ with an INTJ. It is amazing. We were friends before being in a relationship. It was like an alchemical change took place in him when his feelings for me hit him.

We have an incredible amount in common. We also have enough difference to keep things interesting. We're actually really different in a lot of ways, but somehow we end up at exactly the same place together. It's the best relationship I've been in. I am not restless in any way. Restlessness is an undercurrent I have had to deal with quite a lot in past relationships as they weren't right for me in every way. My INTJ and I connect on all levels. (MMV, I'm not speaking for any other INJs in relationships).

 

[Lexicon]

I assume this is how it works:

 

[autumnandtherain]

I'm an INFJ with an INTJ. It is amazing. We were friends for a long time before being in a relationship. It was like an alchemical change took place in him when his feelings for me hit him.

We have an incredible amount in common. We also have enough difference to keep things interesting. We're actually really different in a lot of ways, but somehow we end up at exactly the same place together. It's the best relationship I've been in. I am not restless in any way. Restlessness is an undercurrent I have had to deal with quite a lot in past relationships as they weren't right for me in every way. My INTJ and I connect on all levels. (MMV, I'm not speaking for any other INJs in relationships).

Hmmm, interesting. That's almost exactly how I'd describe my relationship with this INTJ (except that we're not dating yet), but everything about having things in common while still being interesting, ending up at the same place, connecting on all levels, is spot on. We're very good friends at the moment but we talk all the time (and from what I've heard from a few other INTJs, they don't waste time on others people they don't enjoy being around)...

I'm curious to get a few opinions though. Everything I've heard about relationships with INTJs seem to be from opposite ends of the spectrum... Either it's been a very good relationship based on mutual understanding/connection, or people portray INTJs as being cynical, snarky, cold, or just generally hard to get along with or maintain relationships with...

What do you think is the best and worst part of your relationship with your INTJ?

 

[Coriolis]

I'm curious to get a few opinions though. Everything I've heard about relationships with INTJs seem to be from opposite ends of the spectrum... Either it's been a very good relationship based on mutual understanding/connection, or people portray INTJs as being cynical, snarky, cold, or just generally hard to get along with or maintain relationships with...

From the INTJ side I can assure you that all of this is true. We are just highly selective, and obviously not for everyone. If you cannot deal with snarkiness, sarcasm, cynicism, or bluntness, you probably won't do well with an INTJ. If that doesn't drive you away however, you may stay around long enough to find that mutual understanding and connection. We do make an effort to rein those qualities in around people we really care about, and it is often said that those close to us see an entirely different side from everyone else.

 

[Metamorphosis]

I've been off and on talking to an INFJ for quite a while. The sex and overall sexual chemistry is great. We seem to have a compatible "vibe" and get along great together but we don't actually talk very often so I can't help you much there.

 

[violaine]

Hmmm, interesting. That's almost exactly how I'd describe my relationship with this INTJ (except that we're not dating yet), but everything about having things in common while still being interesting, ending up at the same place, connecting on all levels, is spot on. We're very good friends at the moment but we talk all the time (and from what I've heard from a few other INTJs, they don't waste time on others people they don't enjoy being around)...

I'm curious to get a few opinions though. Everything I've heard about relationships with INTJs seem to be from opposite ends of the spectrum... Either it's been a very good relationship based on mutual understanding/connection, or people portray INTJs as being cynical, snarky, cold, or just generally hard to get along with or maintain relationships with...

What do you think is the best and worst part of your relationship with your INTJ?

The worst part is inconsequential now, but it was the length of time it took us to get together. I knew how compatible we were and how good it would be almost immediately. But I'm not one for pushing others. (I don't trust that). It may never have happened but that he glimpsed life without me in it, at a time when his everyday life got completely disrupted. (He had accepted a transfer for work).

A potential sticking point is that we can both be in love with our own vision for how we want life to be. We've been able to compromise happily so far. It helps that the visions are usually closely aligned. We have both been used to a lot of autonomy and independence and were both a little concerned as to how that might play out in a relationship. But it's been really easy to merge our beings and lives. There is nothing else that comes to mind WRT problems in our relationship at all. Everything is good.

And yes, he is cynical and he can be very snarky with people he isn't close to. He tries to tone it down because he doesn't think it's a great attribute. I think he's hilarious. (We def share a dark sense of humor.)

I wonder if the varying reports about INTJs could be down to that INTJs supposedly behave differently with those they trust/their intimates and everyone else? There was a huge difference in my BF's behavior once we crossed over from friendship to love. He became completely unguarded. (I only have this experience to draw on so don't want to necessarily extrapolate from that to all INTJs.)

 

[Zarathustra]

I assume this is how it works:

Yeah, I was gunna bring up this point.

From my observations on this board, INTJs seem to be much more in touch with their Se -- and by "in touch with their Se", I mean to say "in touch with their crass, hedonistic, animalistic sexual deviancy" -- than do our INFJ cousins. Whether it be a male or female INTJ, we tend to be down in this regard. INFJs, otoh, often (not always) seem to express a distaste for such coarseness.

 

[five sounds]

Hmmm, interesting. That's almost exactly how I'd describe my relationship with this INTJ (except that we're not dating yet), but everything about having things in common while still being interesting, ending up at the same place, connecting on all levels, is spot on. We're very good friends at the moment but we talk all the time (and from what I've heard from a few other INTJs, they don't waste time on others people they don't enjoy being around)...

I'm curious to get a few opinions though. Everything I've heard about relationships with INTJs seem to be from opposite ends of the spectrum... Either it's been a very good relationship based on mutual understanding/connection, or people portray INTJs as being cynical, snarky, cold, or just generally hard to get along with or maintain relationships with...

What do you think is the best and worst part of your relationship with your INTJ?

I'm married to an INTJ, and he can be all of those things, but we also have a great relationship based on mutual understanding and connection. He definitely moved slower than I did in a romantic sense. I am an ENFP though, so I have a tendency to fall fast and hard. He was also slow to fall into favor with my friends and family. He looked aloof most of the time, and then he'd talk and say something that offended half of the people in the room. It's funny, because I think he's this way more the less familiar he is with the people or situation. Like volaine said though, he cracks me up. Some people just aren't ready for his sense of humor, especially since he doesn't ease them in really, just opens up his mouth and lets it fly.

Now, though, my friends and family see him for the devoted, intelligent, loving, and hilarious guy that I knew he was all along. He takes our relationship very seriously, and knows how to joke around and have fun. We have great discussions about science, politics, and all kinds of things that stimulate me mentally, and he's great at planning routes for us when we take trips. He is also great at being objective and helping me work through my problems if I'm feeling a bit overcome with emotions, very even-tempered [except when he gets pissed because of someone's incompetence, haha]. I think that if you can handle him making a few awkward silences happen with some off-color comments, and are willing to give him the space and time he needs to make decisions and think things through, an INTJ can be a fantastic mate. I can't imagine being with anyone else now that I know and love his combination of depth, steadfastness, wit, and devotion.

 

[violaine]

I assume this is how it works:

Lol, I was actually going to say there's a few things missing. Mind, soul, other parts of the body... But didn't want to leave out something I hadn't thought of. I know he feels the same, dammit! We're quantumly entangled! . (Nevermind that I'm probably quantumly entangled with everyone I've ever interacted with.)

Yeah, I was gunna bring up this point.

From my observations on this board, INTJs seem to be much more in touch with their Se -- and by "in touch with their Se", I mean to say "in touch with their crass, hedonistic, animalistic sexual deviancy" -- than do our INFJ cousins. Whether it be a male or female INTJ, we tend to be down in this regard. INFJs, otoh, often (not always) seem to express a distaste for such coarseness.

Usual disclaimers about not speaking for all INFJs. I keep a lot hidden in public. There is a lot I don't say, but I don't deny things either. I often hint at things. I get a strange thrill from keeping certain things under wraps. Partially because I like surprising my BFs in private. So yeah, I like to try to keep it classy in public. But I'm well aware that you can't spell class without ass.

Or classy without assy. *goes off an an atypical ass tangent*

 

[five sounds]

Haha, yeah, sure. But who doesn't want a fun sex life? He's always been very respectful, so I don't mind. He's never pressuring me, but always keeps it real which I enjoy

 

[Coriolis]

I'm married to an INTJ, and he can be all of those things, but we also have a great relationship based on mutual understanding and connection. He definitely moved slower than I did in a romantic sense. I am an ENFP though, so I have a tendency to fall fast and hard. He was also slow to fall into favor with my friends and family. He looked aloof most of the time, and then he'd talk and say something that offended half of the people in the room. It's funny, because I think he's this way more the less familiar he is with the people or situation. Like volaine said though, he cracks me up. Some people just aren't ready for his sense of humor, especially since he doesn't ease them in really, just opens up his mouth and lets it fly.

The highlighted stands to reason. For the most part, we don't deliberately try to offend people, but we don't always know what a given group or person will find offensive. The better we know someone, the better we understand this and can adjust our behavior accordingly. We will make the effort especially when we do care about someone. My SO's family liked me right off the bat, so I should consider myself lucky.

 

[Metamorphosis]

Usual disclaimers about not speaking for all INFJs. I keep a lot hidden in public. There is a lot I don't say, but I don't deny things either. I often hint at things. I get a strange thrill from keeping certain things under wraps. Partially because I like surprising my BFs in private. So yeah, I like to try to keep it classy in public. But I'm well aware that you can't spell class without ass.

Or classy without assy. *goes off an an atypical ass tangent*

Yeah, I was going to bring up this point. I have found INFJs in private, sexually, to be way more open, expressive, and enthusiastic than they generally are in public. It can be quite surprising. It probably depends on the specific INFJ and their value set, but it seems like the INFJ I have the most experience with is careful about not coming off as too forward. As soon as I initiate it, though, it suddenly becomes ok.

With that said, I do agree with Z. If it hadn't been for my blatant sexual advances, I don't think she ever would have expressed any interest.

 

[violaine]

Yeah, I was going to bring up this point. I have found INFJs in private, sexually, to be way more open, expressive, and enthusiastic than they generally are in public. It can be quite surprising. It probably depends on the specific INFJ and their value set, but it seems like the INFJ I have the most experience with is careful about not coming off as too forward. As soon as I initiate it, though, it suddenly becomes ok.

With that said, I do agree with Z. If it hadn't been for my blatant sexual advances, I don't think she ever would have expressed any interest.

Yeah, there's a reason why those cliches about still waters and dark horses and judging books by covers were coined. Some people are not what they appear to be.

I'm not interested in having every side on display for every person. I'm also into one-to-one connections. Those lend themselves to private revelations rather than public. That said, I don't let the other party assume all of the responsibility and take all of the risks. That's not fair. It just takes time. It's not that I even think that is the best way to be, but I can't be any other way. (I can't date casually, I tried it once and it felt like I was playing a part I had no feel for. And I don't randomly flirt - though I am warm and friendly once I get talking with someone.) If it has to be like that, I've found that the advantage is having a really strong foundation to build from. With genuine desire. I've turned that person over in my mind so many times by the time things progress that I want to make all the imaginings a reality RIGHT NOW!

I can see how it could be hard to read and off-putting though. Heck, before I felt like he wouldn't think I was throwing myself at him, (blergh), I used to dress quite conservatively whenever I was around my current BF before we got closer. He saw me out one night in what I usually wear and it was a really funny and weird moment. He looked kind of shocked. And then slightly wolfish. He asked me out a little while later. Have definitely learned some good lessons about not intentionally obscuring myself so much.

Anyway, me, me, me, blah, blah, blah. Sorry, OP!

Edit: Just to clarify, he didn't ask me out because of what I was wearing. I believe it was because I didn't skewer him on a particular occasion over something, though he fully expected that I would.

 

[autumnandtherain]

I'm married to an INTJ, and he can be all of those things, but we also have a great relationship based on mutual understanding and connection. He definitely moved slower than I did in a romantic sense. I am an ENFP though, so I have a tendency to fall fast and hard. He was also slow to fall into favor with my friends and family. He looked aloof most of the time, and then he'd talk and say something that offended half of the people in the room. It's funny, because I think he's this way more the less familiar he is with the people or situation. Like volaine said though, he cracks me up. Some people just aren't ready for his sense of humor, especially since he doesn't ease them in really, just opens up his mouth and lets it fly.

Now, though, my friends and family see him for the devoted, intelligent, loving, and hilarious guy that I knew he was all along. He takes our relationship very seriously, and knows how to joke around and have fun. We have great discussions about science, politics, and all kinds of things that stimulate me mentally, and he's great at planning routes for us when we take trips. He is also great at being objective and helping me work through my problems if I'm feeling a bit overcome with emotions, very even-tempered [except when he gets pissed because of someone's incompetence, haha]. I think that if you can handle him making a few awkward silences happen with some off-color comments, and are willing to give him the space and time he needs to make decisions and think things through, an INTJ can be a fantastic mate. I can't imagine being with anyone else now that I know and love his combination of depth, steadfastness, wit, and devotion.

Sounds pretty familiar. He is definitely moving slowly, but I don't mind because I do the same thing. I like to really get to know a person before I decide to date them, even if I've been attracted to them from the start. I've experienced the "awkward silences", but I don't really mind. Sometimes it's nice to just "be" with someone, especially if you're very connected on an intuitive and emotional level. Haven't witnessed the off-color comments from him yet... He is very into politics, though, so even though he's not rude, and will listen to others' opinions, he doesn't budge, which can irritate others. He doesn't care though, and we have the same views, so it doesn't bother me. I do love the INTJ's level-headedness. I *can* be level-headed, but I like having someone that I don't *have* to always be level-headed around who won't start feeling awful just because I'm feeling awful, etc.

Yeah, I was going to bring up this point. I have found INFJs in private, sexually, to be way more open, expressive, and enthusiastic than they generally are in public. It can be quite surprising. It probably depends on the specific INFJ and their value set, but it seems like the INFJ I have the most experience with is careful about not coming off as too forward. As soon as I initiate it, though, it suddenly becomes ok.

With that said, I do agree with Z. If it hadn't been for my blatant sexual advances, I don't think she ever would have expressed any interest.

I actually agree with that. I am always worried about coming off too forward. But if it's something I wanted to do/say anyway, and then someone initiates, I'll go for it.

 

[autumnandtherain]

The worst part is inconsequential now, but it was the length of time it took us to get together. I knew how compatible we were and how good it would be almost immediately. But I'm not one for pushing others. (I don't trust that). It may never have happened but that he glimpsed life without me in it, at a time when his everyday life got completely disrupted. (He had accepted a transfer for work).

A potential sticking point is that we can both be in love with our own vision for how we want life to be. We've been able to compromise happily so far. It helps that the visions are usually closely aligned. We have both been used to a lot of autonomy and independence and were both a little concerned as to how that might play out in a relationship. But it's been really easy to merge our beings and lives. There is nothing else that comes to mind WRT problems in our relationship at all. Everything is good.

And yes, he is cynical and he can be very snarky with people he isn't close to. He tries to tone it down because he doesn't think it's a great attribute. I think he's hilarious. (We def share a dark sense of humor.)

I wonder if the varying reports about INTJs could be down to that INTJs supposedly behave differently with those they trust/their intimates and everyone else? There was a huge difference in my BF's behavior once we crossed over from friendship to love. He became completely unguarded. (I only have this experience to draw on so don't want to necessarily extrapolate from that to all INTJs.)

Forgot to multi-quote with this one as well... Anyway, yeah, I can see that thing about the visions for your lives. He and I definitely both have those visions that we can be "in love with" at times. But I realized we'd probably be really compatible when he not only made me pretty darn happy, but our visions were really really similar too. I know INTJs are known for having lists of specific qualities they want in a mate... I don't know if INFJs usually do that, but I do, so I was pretty intrigued when I noticed that our lists pretty much matched up with each other.

Something I find interesting though, is that I've never seen that typical INTJ snarky, cynical, pessimistic attitude in him. He's definitely a realist, and in every other way an INTJ, but actually fairly optimistic. He definitely is a T, but I wonder if being a fairly low-scoring T, he has more of an attitude of a Feeler in that sense?

 

[greenfairy]

If I'm an INFJ I can say something about being involved with an INTJ; you may remember the thread I made. We had a ton in common, but didn't really get along that well outside of the bedroom. Beware of an INTJ who wants to be involved with more than one person casually, tells you things that don't add up, has had an unusually large number of relationships, and tells you for months that he's not ready for one. He obviously has issues he hasn't dealt with. This is true whatever your type.

I get along much better personality-wise with the ISFP, but minus the intellectual connection.

 

[autumnandtherain]

Good to know. However, this one seems to be looking for *gasp* a long-term relationship! Or even eventually... a wife! So I haven't really seen that in him.

That's an interesting thought to bring up though... Do you INTJs tend to look for flings more, or long-term mates?

 

[Coriolis]

I don't know if INFJs usually do that, but I do, so I was pretty intrigued when I noticed that our lists pretty much matched up with each other.

I did a similar exercise with my INTP.

Something I find interesting though, is that I've never seen that typical INTJ snarky, cynical, pessimistic attitude in him. He's definitely a realist, and in every other way an INTJ, but actually fairly optimistic. He definitely is a T, but I wonder if being a fairly low-scoring T, he has more of an attitude of a Feeler in that sense?

Realism is just balancing pessimism and optimism. We can seem pessimistic because we are always ready, willing, and able to find the flaws in things, to point out everything that can go wrong, and will make no effort to downplay or sugarcoat it. It is this, however, that enables us to correct, work around, or otherwise overcome these problems. Our ability to do this is the source of our optimism, because it lets us see how to make it all right in the end, in spite of the obstacles. You cannot fix what is wrong if you are willing to look at only what is right.

That's an interesting thought to bring up though... Do you INTJs tend to look for flings more, or long-term mates?

Before I was ready to settle down, I looked for companionship, someone to enjoy shared interests/activities, and to learn what I wanted from a relationship. When I was older and felt I was ready for a long term relationship, I stopped bothering with anyone who proved unsuitable in that respect. I have never been interested in brief flings, one-night-stands, or casual sex. I don't have time for that, and it is more bother than it is worth.

 

[autumnandtherain]

Realism is just balancing pessimism and optimism. We can seem pessimistic because we are always ready, willing, and able to find the flaws in things, to point out everything that can go wrong, and will make no effort to downplay or sugarcoat it. It is this, however, that enables us to correct, work around, or otherwise overcome these problems. Our ability to do this is the source of our optimism, because it lets us see how to make it all right in the end, in spite of the obstacles. You cannot fix what is wrong if you are willing to look at only what is right.

That's true.

I heard a theory about INTJ's extroverted thinking that I thought was interesting (however, I'm not sure how accurate). It said that because INTJs project thinking, what they are thinking or strong opinions or emotions tend to show, whether they are happy or otherwise. Thoughts?