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  1. #31
    Senior Member autumnandtherain's Avatar
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    Something I thought of, and I wonder if this could be why my INTJ doesn't seem to have that cold or sarcastic exterior that most people tend to associate with INTJs (however true or not). Would instinctual variants have any affect on that? I think he might be sx dominant, probably sx/sp.

  2. #32
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autumnandtherain View Post
    Something I thought of, and I wonder if this could be why my INTJ doesn't seem to have that cold or sarcastic exterior that most people tend to associate with INTJs (however true or not). Would instinctual variants have any affect on that? I think he might be sx dominant, probably sx/sp.
    A reasonable speculation. Cold and sarcastic is fairly common for INTJs, but few seem to be SX first. I'm not that familiar with enneagram, though; others will have more reliable insight.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #33
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autumnandtherain View Post
    Something I thought of, and I wonder if this could be why my INTJ doesn't seem to have that cold or sarcastic exterior that most people tend to associate with INTJs (however true or not). Would instinctual variants have any affect on that? I think he might be sx dominant, probably sx/sp.
    My INTJ is an sx-dom. He's got a little sarcasm and coldness, but it's usually overshadowed by his genuine concern for his relationships. He's really worked to keep those things in check through past girlfriends, dealing with family, etc. For him, it usually comes off in a joking way, but you can tell there's some truth in there. He says that when he was younger, he had a hard time socially and sometimes pissed off teachers because he was a little more raw INTJ sarcastic and cold. The sx comes into play because his priorities lie in his relationships, so he's been internally motivated to adjust his behavior to foster strong bonds with the people he cares about. He's not SO though, so he still lets the sarcasm fly when the stakes are purely social, and will have little effect on his inner circle.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by autumnandtherain View Post
    Something I thought of, and I wonder if this could be why my INTJ doesn't seem to have that cold or sarcastic exterior that most people tend to associate with INTJs (however true or not). Would instinctual variants have any affect on that? I think he might be sx dominant, probably sx/sp.
    Yeah, I'm sx dom, and, well, I dunno, people perceive me in all kinds of fucking ways, often projecting their issues onto me, but there are definitely people who probably think I am a cold, hard robot (generally, coworkers who don't know me well), and then there are the people who know me. I can be extremely expressive, extremely loud, extremely friendly, anything, really - the one quality that is pretty unanimously used to describe me is "intense" - I just am very selective about how I let that stuff out.

  5. #35
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yeah, I'm sx dom, and, well, I dunno, people perceive me in all kinds of fucking ways, often projecting their issues onto me, but there are definitely people who probably think I am a cold, hard robot (generally, coworkers who don't know me well), and then there are the people who know me. I can be extremely expressive, extremely loud, extremely friendly, anything, really - the one quality that is pretty unanimously used to describe me is "intense" - I just am very selective about how I let that stuff out.
    The extremes of expression I see even here through barebones text make you seem more "hot", quite the opposite of cold and robotic. It is part of what can make you seem more ENTJ, or even 8-ish, though those may not be your actual/core types.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The extremes of expression I see even here through barebones text make you seem more "hot", quite the opposite of cold and robotic. It is part of what can make you seem more ENTJ, or even 8-ish, though those may not be your actual/core types.
    Yeah, understandable.

    But the two people here who know me best would both say I'm an introvert.

    In addition to sx/so being a factor:

    Sun conjunct Pluto

    There is a distinct intensity to people born under a Sun-Pluto conjunction. Self-knowledge and psychological transformation are their goals. Because the ego is attached to the transformative Pluto, these people undergo many periods of self-renewal. They submit themselves to frequent periods of intense self-analysis.

    Perhaps even more obvious than Sun-Pluto people's intensity is their distaste for superficiality, and their ability to "read" others almost instantly, tapping into their motivations effortlessly. They quickly read between the lines, and although this helps them to experience a deeper dimension of existence, the focus may be a little too dark or negative. They are determined to uncover the truth, but when this aspect is challenged by other planets, this "truth" may be biased on the side of negativity. They can be so obsessed to prove that something is wrong, and that things are not as they appear, that it becomes an obsession. In fact, they can be very self-destructive. This is largely due to a fear that they are being taken advantage of or being lied to. Refusing to accept things at face value and mistrusting others' motivations can lead these people to work hard at proving these fears! The result can be self-fulfilling prophecies, and the natives can feel very much alone. People born under the Sun-Pluto conjunction need to consciously work on this tendency to search for the negative. It is quite an experience to watch a person with Sun-Pluto in their charts finally uncover a wrongdoing. It's almost as if they are reborn and entirely relieved! Take for an example a Sun-Pluto person who is married and suspects his spouse is having an affair. The suspicion can be all-encompassing, and uncovering the truth takes on a life of its own. When the truth is finally uncovered, there is a huge sense of release. This is not to say that the truth isn't painful to these people. It is. But the period of "not knowing" (but suspecting) was even more painful!

    On the same lines, there is an expression, "What you don't know can't hurt you". Sun-Pluto people don't agree. For them, what they don't know (but suspect)*can*hurt them--to the point of obsession. It hurts to need to know the truth, and to be suspicious just because things seem to be "too good to be true" or too happy.

    It is important for Sun-Pluto people to recognize their self-destructive behaviors. With the conjunction, these people live and breathe Pluto. With any conjunction to the Sun, the planet is so instinctive that it can be hard to even identify with it. It can easily be one's "blind spot". But identifying the qualities of that planet is the first step to mindful living. With Sun-Pluto, the first step is to identify the Pluto energy in one's life, and then to channel it into positive avenues. There is a strong desire for an added dimension of experience in the life. Ordinary and accepting is boring to Sun-Pluto people. They need more, and they can attract challenges in their lives--life-changing ones--because of this hunger for another layer of experience. They need to learn to let go of things in their lives that are preventing them from moving forward. Positive channels for Pluto energy can be such things as research (where their skills as "detectives" can be put to good use) or counseling (where their ability to understand people is appreciated).

    These people attach meaning to even the most ordinary of experiences. They often have much sexual vitality and passion. In fact, the orgasm itself has the qualities of emotional intensity and concentration, as well as a death/rebirth experience (sometimes referred to as the "little death"), that is very Plutonic. These people are capable of profound insights, and they usually possess healing powers. They're talented at getting to the heart of the matter, or finding the "bottom line", and their lives are likely to be fascinating. These people are learning to be fearless. They may struggle with this at times, but they might find that conquering their fear of their own power, or their own "dark side" is most of the battle.

  7. #37
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yeah, understandable.

    But the two people here who know me best would both say I'm an introvert.
    I never doubted this, just pointing out how obvious the distinction is, even to people like me who don't know you well. We often paint everyone in a given type with the same brush, which may be reasonable to a point, but it is worthwhile to consider the distinctions.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #38
    Senior Member autumnandtherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    My INTJ is an sx-dom. He's got a little sarcasm and coldness, but it's usually overshadowed by his genuine concern for his relationships. He's really worked to keep those things in check through past girlfriends, dealing with family, etc. For him, it usually comes off in a joking way, but you can tell there's some truth in there. He says that when he was younger, he had a hard time socially and sometimes pissed off teachers because he was a little more raw INTJ sarcastic and cold. The sx comes into play because his priorities lie in his relationships, so he's been internally motivated to adjust his behavior to foster strong bonds with the people he cares about. He's not SO though, so he still lets the sarcasm fly when the stakes are purely social, and will have little effect on his inner circle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yeah, I'm sx dom, and, well, I dunno, people perceive me in all kinds of fucking ways, often projecting their issues onto me, but there are definitely people who probably think I am a cold, hard robot (generally, coworkers who don't know me well), and then there are the people who know me. I can be extremely expressive, extremely loud, extremely friendly, anything, really - the one quality that is pretty unanimously used to describe me is "intense" - I just am very selective about how I let that stuff out.
    Yeah, I can see how other people who aren't close to him could maybe see him as more cold, but all of that disappears when you start talking to him. He can be a little blunt/brutally honest at times, but I value that, so it's not really something that bothers me. As for INTJs appearing cold before you get to know them, I'm an INFJ, and even with Fe I can come across that way. I've had co-workers tell me that they thought I was a jerk at first even though I'm really nice, because I don't really talk to people much at first. I think it's mostly because I'm a little shy, and more in-my-head, and I feel the need to suppress my Fe at work sometimes since I'm in a more Thinker-driven work environment.

    I'd also be interested to hear if there's anyone on here who is an SO INTJ... I imagine that doesn't happen often.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by autumnandtherain View Post
    I'd also be interested to hear if there's anyone on here who is an SO INTJ... I imagine that doesn't happen often.
    The only one I've heard of is @Time

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    From the INTJ side I can assure you that all of this is true. We are just highly selective, and obviously not for everyone. If you cannot deal with snarkiness, sarcasm, cynicism, or bluntness, you probably won't do well with an INTJ. If that doesn't drive you away however, you may stay around long enough to find that mutual understanding and connection. We do make an effort to rein those qualities in around people we really care about, and it is often said that those close to us see an entirely different side from everyone else.
    Yes, if we decide that we want to let you in, then as long as you don't betray our loyalty, you have a friend/lover for life. The public INTJ may appear silent, judgemental amd sarcastic, but the private one, that few people see can be very different.

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