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  1. #21
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autumnandtherain View Post
    I heard a theory about INTJ's extroverted thinking that I thought was interesting (however, I'm not sure how accurate). It said that because INTJs project thinking, what they are thinking or strong opinions or emotions tend to show, whether they are happy or otherwise. Thoughts?
    By "project" do you mean "show to the outside world"? As our highest extraverted function, thinking is what we show externally most of the time. Extraverted thinking, in simplest terms, is objective judgment oriented to external facts and criteria. This is the essence of our critical nature, though Ni certainly fuels our understanding of what could happen, both good and bad, and how. It means we must have an opinion on things so we feel they are decided, however temporary or open to revision that opinion may be. I suppose this can make us seem opinionated or even judgmental. Most people don't realize how open to revising these opinions we remain, though revision requires reliable evidence or at least sound logic, not simply an unsupported sentiment that we are wrong.

    Emotions are an entirely different matter, however. They are not objective, and most INTJs distrust them. At best we learn to incorporate them as valuable input to our logical decision making processes. We thus tend to keep emotions to ourselves, especially in "public". Of course we are not perfect at this (the INTJ robot stereotype has little accuracy), being subject to the same range of human emotions as everyone else. If an INTJ is being open to you with his/her emotions, however, it is a sure sign that he/she trusts you, values your relationship, and considers you a close friend/relation/etc.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #22
    Senior Member autumnandtherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    By "project" do you mean "show to the outside world"? As our highest extraverted function, thinking is what we show externally most of the time. Extraverted thinking, in simplest terms, is objective judgment oriented to external facts and criteria. This is the essence of our critical nature, though Ni certainly fuels our understanding of what could happen, both good and bad, and how. It means we must have an opinion on things so we feel they are decided, however temporary or open to revision that opinion may be. I suppose this can make us seem opinionated or even judgmental. Most people don't realize how open to revising these opinions we remain, though revision requires reliable evidence or at least sound logic, not simply an unsupported sentiment that we are wrong.

    Emotions are an entirely different matter, however. They are not objective, and most INTJs distrust them. At best we learn to incorporate them as valuable input to our logical decision making processes. We thus tend to keep emotions to ourselves, especially in "public". Of course we are not perfect at this (the INTJ robot stereotype has little accuracy), being subject to the same range of human emotions as everyone else. If an INTJ is being open to you with his/her emotions, however, it is a sure sign that he/she trusts you, values your relationship, and considers you a close friend/relation/etc.
    Yes, that's what I mean by project.

    That's interesting, thanks for your insight. I find that especially intriguing since my INTJ has pretty much always been open with me, even when we were first getting to know each other. I hear that's kind of rare with INTJs. Being an INFJ myself, I found the immediate "realness" and honesty very refreshing.

  3. #23
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autumnandtherain View Post
    That's interesting, thanks for your insight. I find that especially intriguing since my INTJ has pretty much always been open with me, even when we were first getting to know each other. I hear that's kind of rare with INTJs. Being an INFJ myself, I found the immediate "realness" and honesty very refreshing.
    I should qualify the general statements I have been making here by pointing out that I can really only speak for myself, though I do know more INTJs than most people, and their examples are mostly consistent with this. Yes, emotional openness tends to be rare in our type, but if your INTJ is more balanced on T/F, that may account for his greater openness from the start. I will be very open with certain people about certain things, while saying nothing about other topics or areas of my life. What most people see, then, is real and honest but just a small part of the whole picture.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #24
    Senior Member autumnandtherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I should qualify the general statements I have been making here by pointing out that I can really only speak for myself, though I do know more INTJs than most people, and their examples are mostly consistent with this. Yes, emotional openness tends to be rare in our type, but if your INTJ is more balanced on T/F, that may account for his greater openness from the start. I will be very open with certain people about certain things, while saying nothing about other topics or areas of my life. What most people see, then, is real and honest but just a small part of the whole picture.
    He may very well be more balanced on T/F... If I recall correctly, that was the case. An INTJ with a few F tendencies, I suppose. That makes sense though.

    Just curious, are there any types you get along with/connect with particularly well?

  5. #25
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autumnandtherain View Post
    Just curious, are there any types you get along with/connect with particularly well?
    I have been able to get along with at least some representatives of most all types. I have noticed more the types that I tend not to get along with. These are primarily SFs, also ENFJs. I seem to get along best with other NTs, some STJs, NFPs and INFJs (not sure why the E/I makes such a difference). I get along with STPs professionally, but don't interact with many socially.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #26
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have been able to get along with at least some representatives of most all types. I have noticed more the types that I tend not to get along with. These are primarily SFs, also ENFJs. I seem to get along best with other NTs, some STJs, NFPs and INFJs (not sure why the E/I makes such a difference). I get along with STPs professionally, but don't interact with many socially.
    I think the shared Ni dominance contributes an understanding and common outlook, whereas ENFJs' dominant Fe clashes with both Te and Fi, and must be subservient to Ni to understand. Inferior Ti would also be sensitive to Te criticism.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I heard a theory about INTJ's extroverted thinking that I thought was interesting (however, I'm not sure how accurate). It said that because INTJs project thinking, what they are thinking or strong opinions or emotions tend to show, whether they are happy or otherwise. Thoughts?

    I have been working closely with an INTJ on a writing project. Actually, I have TWO INTJ writer friends. One writes historical pieces for history buff magazines and the other writes articles for martial arts magazines and is composing a manual on knife fighting [for which he actually uses me in several of the photos].Currently, he is also working on a small book about spirituality, which is the project I'm helping him on, which means he calls me often and that we have become good friends, not only that, he's my grand master, so we have an ongoing teacher-student relationship. At any rate, although on the surface he doesn't seem to "feel" the guy is committed to those people and ideas that he values and he's loyal to them. How can I not admire that? He's a man after my own heart. The other fellow is the same way. I saw the man grieve over the death of an ox.

    I am trying to establish that I am well acquainted with two INTJ males and find that they both share some things in common. Both are thorough, meticulous and methodical. Both are decisive and cunning. Both are highly intelligent. Both have an off-beat and witty sense of humor. Neither of them are very good at laughing, [but I can make an INTJ laugh. It comes from hanging out with them and learning which buttons to push.]. Neither of them get their feathers ruffled easily. So, I'm thinking INTJs are like any other type in that there are some who are healthy and balanced and awesome and there are some who are imbalanced and unkind and capable of global annihilation. They're like blackberries. You just have to pick the good ones and leave the sour ones on the vine a little longer.

    Both are positive people for the most part [if you put aside the whole ex-assassin thing for one of them, and the whole being an x-member of special forces for the other]. Anyway, my point is that for the most part, they are just peaceful people and they tend to get excited mostly about their ideas, their thinking. One of them [knife fighter expert] even records messages on his answering machine designed to let people know what he's thinking and to challenge the listener to think. I have noticed that NTJs do tend to have a confrontational side and they don't mind a good debate. In fact, I think they kind of get a high off a debate.

    So, yes, I do think an INTJ/INFJ relationship could be a beautiful thing, provided both partners were objective, unselfish and mature. But then again, maybe that's the key to any good relationship, between any two types?
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  8. #28
    Senior Member autumnandtherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think the shared Ni dominance contributes an understanding and common outlook, whereas ENFJs' dominant Fe clashes with both Te and Fi, and must be subservient to Ni to understand. Inferior Ti would also be sensitive to Te criticism.
    Hmm, that's true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I have been working closely with an INTJ on a writing project. Actually, I have TWO INTJ writer friends. One writes historical pieces for history buff magazines and the other writes articles for martial arts magazines and is composing a manual on knife fighting [for which he actually uses me in several of the photos].Currently, he is also working on a small book about spirituality, which is the project I'm helping him on, which means he calls me often and that we have become good friends, not only that, he's my grand master, so we have an ongoing teacher-student relationship. At any rate, although on the surface he doesn't seem to "feel" the guy is committed to those people and ideas that he values and he's loyal to them. How can I not admire that? He's a man after my own heart. The other fellow is the same way. I saw the man grieve over the death of an ox.

    I am trying to establish that I am well acquainted with two INTJ males and find that they both share some things in common. Both are thorough, meticulous and methodical. Both are decisive and cunning. Both are highly intelligent. Both have an off-beat and witty sense of humor. Neither of them are very good at laughing, [but I can make an INTJ laugh. It comes from hanging out with them and learning which buttons to push.]. Neither of them get their feathers ruffled easily. So, I'm thinking INTJs are like any other type in that there are some who are healthy and balanced and awesome and there are some who are imbalanced and unkind and capable of global annihilation. They're like blackberries. You just have to pick the good ones and leave the sour ones on the vine a little longer.

    Both are positive people for the most part [if you put aside the whole ex-assassin thing for one of them, and the whole being an x-member of special forces for the other]. Anyway, my point is that for the most part, they are just peaceful people and they tend to get excited mostly about their ideas, their thinking. One of them [knife fighter expert] even records messages on his answering machine designed to let people know what he's thinking and to challenge the listener to think. I have noticed that NTJs do tend to have a confrontational side and they don't mind a good debate. In fact, I think they kind of get a high off a debate.

    So, yes, I do think an INTJ/INFJ relationship could be a beautiful thing, provided both partners were objective, unselfish and mature. But then again, maybe that's the key to any good relationship, between any two types?
    It's a beautiful thing to make an INTJ laugh.

    That's really very interesting. I suppose if they are a "healthy" INTJ, their T/F functions are more balanced, they're mature, etc, then they're pretty easy to get along with for the most part.

    My INTJ definitely loves a good debate about almost anything. I don't really debate with him because I don't find it particularly enjoyable and I'm not very good at it, but we do talk in depth on those kinds of subjects which seems to satisfy him. On any other subject, he seems to be careful not to ruffle too many feathers, but he can be blunt, and he definitely says what he means (one of the things I admire about him).

    Very true!

  9. #29
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    From my personal experiences, the intimacy factor between INFJ and INTJ is quite ferocious and deviant. Inferior Se definitely influences a hedonistic and animalistic dynamic. The thing that I found lacking in the relationship was the emotional support, especially when I was having emotional ups and downs. INTJs focus on solving problems, whereas INFJs focus on tending to their partner's heart. In discussions, INTJs often get involved in debates, so otherwise peaceful INFJs that seek consensus might not feel 100% comfortable in this situation. Sometimes I would have heated arguments about caring for people involved in a situation, as well as showing support for theories for theory sake. INTJs will dismantle this, even if they are romantically involved with you. So be prepared to have your values challenged. It may rile you up a bit. Compromise is seldom in their vocabulary. :P

    INTJs are very very selective as to who they show their affections to. They can be sweet when they really care about you. But it isn't soft and squishy warm Fe love, though. INTJ Fi based affection feels different to me than Fe. The affections will be focused on you and your INTJ partner, with very little regard to anyone else. INTJs focus on you and them in the relationship, rather than taking in the rest of the family and friends. Fe looks to harmonize and get everyone to get along, whereas INTJ Fi is perfectly okay being alone in their personal pursuits. If you're looking for someone who will help you to deviate from being bound to pleasing others, which can be an issue with us INFJs and the infamous martyr complex, then an INTJ would help you develop even more individualism. But if you're searching for consensus, then an INTJ would challenge that. Potential issue with regards to aux Fe vs. tert. Fi dynamic.

    But, even with these challenges, the connection with INTJs are rewarding. Getting involved in Ni-based meta discussions can be liberating. INTJs are helpful in pointing out steps to realize your goals. There may be factors irl that you as an INFJ may have missed out. INTJs come up with strategies to get there. Be prepared for them to bluntly tell you if something will not work, though. Even when they love you, they will still offer constructive criticism. But the meta-discussions are well worth it. It usually helps when you two have a common passion to build off of.

    There's overall a good dynamic, but be prepared for bluntness.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  10. #30
    Senior Member autumnandtherain's Avatar
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    Very interesting. Thanks!

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