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View Poll Results: INTJs - Do you think more in images than words?

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  1. #11
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    My earliest memories are from the time period between 15 to 17 months old and I remember images, impressions, understandings. When I was about 17 months old, I have one vivid memory of my mother and grandmother standing beside a bed. My mother was changing my newborn sister's diaper and she and my grandma were talking. I still recall seeing them, seeing my sister on the bed and seeing my hands on the bars of my crib. My hands are all I recall seeing of myself. I recall hearing speech but not fully understanding the words and then I looked out the window directly behind my grandmother and saw a "creature" looking in the window. It seemed perfectly normal to me that some kind of creature should look in the window, but I had no idea what it was because I was a baby and had no frame of reference. So, to this day, all I can tell you was that it was a creature. It might have been a bird or an owl or a cat or who knows what. Of course, I had no word for it then, not even creature, but I understood that it was a living thing and that it was observing my family from behind the window just as I was observing from behind those crib bars.
    I don't know if it's Ni but that's an amazing story - mostly because of the detail with which you remember it. How do you know you were 15 - 17 months old? I recall my grandfather once sitting in a rocking chair and he died when I was 3 so I could have been 2 or 3 but that's as far as I go back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    When I think, I think in the haze that someone described. Sometimes I can't tell precisely "what" I'm thinking because it hasn't come together yet. I space out and if someone asks me what I was thinking or where my mind was, I honestly can't tell them, but once the idea comes together, I have a complete picture that blows both my mind and their minds. However, if I'm interrupted before this "thing" can find words, then I may loose the brilliance it is sure to produce.

    I hope that doesn't make me sound totally crazy but that IS how I think much of the time.
    That's sort of how it works for me too. Then when I'm verbalizing things, it is sometimes in a halting sort of way. There is a point or a few points in my head that I have a strong need to communicate but they're vague. Sometimes I'm successful in communicating them and sometimes I'm not because the words just don't come to shape these vague impressions into a thing that is meaningful that another person can understand. People who know me have grown to be patient to listen without interrupting because they realize when I'm in that halting speech mode that I'm usually going to say something insightful. Those who don't know me well tend jump in at the pauses and I can lose the train of thought. It can be frustrating because it seems like the thoughts fly out of my head never to return. That's probably not accurate but it feels like it at the time.

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  2. #12
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @highlander, thank you for saying it's interesting and NOT saying I was a lunatic. haha...one of my graduate professors told me that it was rare when a person could remember back that early, but he said there have been records of other people doing it. He was fascinated that I had memories before language and said he had never encountered anyone in real life who did that. He also said I was the most divergent thinker that he had ever met and offered me a grad assistant position. My dad got sick and I didn't get to do it, but it was cool to be asked, but then again, he may have been planning to dissect my brain. I did get to go back and finish my degree but that professor had accepted a job in Louisiana by that time. I remember almost everything in vivid details, even things that I would like to forget.

    I don't know if it's Ni but that's an amazing story - mostly because of the detail with which you remember it. How do you know you were 15 - 17 months old? I recall my grandfather once sitting in a rocking chair and he died when I was 3 so I could have been 2 or 3 but that's as far as I go back.
    Good question. My sister was one of those unexpected babies, meaning my mother got pregnant within a few months after my birth. I am approximately 15 months older than my sister and she was a very new baby, so I estimate my age to be between 15-17 months. Incidentally, my sister was born with a rare spinal condition akin to spina-bifida which doctors attributed to her being conceived before my mother's body had fully recovered from my birth.

    Then when I'm verbalizing things, it is sometimes in a halting sort of way
    . I do that, too...quite often and I actually sometimes say, "I don't know how to put it into words."

    There is a point or a few points in my head that I have a strong need to communicate but they're vague. Sometimes I'm successful in communicating them and sometimes I'm not because the words just don't come to shape these vague impressions into a thing that is meaningful that another person can understand.
    Yes, absolutely.

    Those who don't know me well tend jump in at the pauses and I can lose the train of thought.
    I hate it when people do that.

    It can be frustrating because it seems like the thoughts fly out of my head never to return. That's probably not accurate but it feels like it at the time.
    I know what you mean. It does seem like that even if the thought return they won't carry the same "umph" [can't think of a better word to describe it...but it's umph.]
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  3. #13
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    He also said I was the most divergent thinker that he had ever met and offered me a grad assistant position. My dad got sick and I didn't get to do it, but it was cool to be asked, but then again, he may have been planning to dissect my brain. I did get to go back and finish my degree but that professor had accepted a job in Louisiana by that time. I remember almost everything in vivid details, even things that I would like to forget.
    Sorry you weren't able to take advantage of an opportunity like that.

    I found your comment on divergent thinking interesting. It got me wondering what exactly "divergent" thinking is. So, I looked it up.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...hinker-are-you

    I'm not actually sure that divergent is a good way to describe Ni. That's more like Ne in terms of coming up with different options. In fact, I would go so far as to say that this is a key way of characterizing one vs. the other. Ne diverges. Ni converges. The Ni-dom will come at things from a completely different perspective - turning a problem on it's head so to speak. Maybe that would appear divergent to someone else who has a different point of view. The Ni dom will say, "I think X" but not know how they got there vs. saying, "We could do X or we could do Y or we could do Z or we could do D."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    . I do that, too...quite often and I actually sometimes say, "I don't know how to put it into words."
    I'll say, "I'm not sure if I can describe this but ....... ". Then I'll go on to attempt it. I might say something like, "Looking at all these different things (go on to describe them), something just feels off to me. I guess it is (rambling attempt to describe)." Then I'll ask questions - I'll engage in a dialogue on something and through that dialogue this thing that is bothering me comes up in the conversation. Sometimes, I actually use the other person to help me shape things into words. That technique seems to work especially well with INTPs and Si doms. Then when they say what was in my head, I'll be like yes - that's exactly it or what my concern is or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I know what you mean. It does seem like that even if the thought return they won't carry the same "umph" [can't think of a better word to describe it...but it's umph.]
    I'm curious - do you know what your enneagram instinctual subtype is? I have wondered if the "umph" thing has something to do with being Sx.

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Sorry you weren't able to take advantage of an opportunity like that.
    Thanks, me, too, but I don't regret spending time with my dad.

    I found your comment on divergent thinking interesting. It got me wondering what exactly "divergent" thinking is. So, I looked it up.

    Thanks. I have wondered if he called me that because he couldn't quite figure exactly how my mind worked. He only knew that it worked differently than anyone else he knew, so he labeled it divergence. I mean, after all, he wasn't a professor psychology. He was a professor of pedagogy.

    I'm not actually sure that divergent is a good way to describe Ni
    Good point.

    The Ni-dom will come at things from a completely different perspective - turning a problem on it's head so to speak
    . Well, that's what I did and he called it divergent.
    Maybe that would appear divergent to someone else who has a different point of view.
    Ha, well, I should have waited!

    Then I'll ask questions - I'll engage in a dialogue on something and through that dialogue this thing that is bothering me comes up in the conversation. Sometimes, I actually use the other person to help me shape things into words. That technique seems to work especially well with INTPs and Si doms. Then when they say what was in my head, I'll be like yes - that's exactly it or what my concern is or whatever
    .

    That is a very good technique.

    I'm curious - do you know what your enneagram instinctual subtype is? I have wondered if the "umph" thing has something to do with being Sx.
    Actually, I'm still working on it. I have been watching videos, reading articles, taking tests, etc. and I'm having a very difficult time with it, despite all the great help that people here have offered me. I'm an amateur, that's what I am!
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  5. #15
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    i tend to think visually and i'm like 80% sure that i'm not an Ni user to any meaningful extent... i doubt this is related.

    i will say that this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I think in fogs that are neither images nor words, fogs of weighed information that is more sensed than directly looked at.
    is something i don't relate too much myself, but i've heard before from my INTJ friend growing up, my INTJ father, my INFJ exwife... it might actually be an IxNJs thing.

  6. #16
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    I don't think visually, I don't gain much from graphs or charts, but I don't think I use words. When I'm trying to think I usually just quiet my mind, then wait for it to sort everything out and come up with an answer. I also sometimes sound things out (talk or whisper to myself) when my mind stalls out. I absolutely hate it when that happens, and I wish there was a way to avoid it. Something has been trying to change me to a visual thinker (makes me visualize something when I start trying to think), and it seems inferior to what I did before. It's not only slower and more limited, but it gets in the way of what I'm doing. I'm guessing it's because I'm an Ne user and like working through all possibilities to arrive at the elegant conclusion. Visualizations, especially if you ever study math, you'll find are greatly limited, and it's better to be able to think abstractly. Though I do admit, it's kinda cool to be able to visualize something and see it and rotate it and adjust it in real-time (like Tesla and Einstein claimed to do), I just don't like doing it when real thinking has to happen.

  7. #17
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    I definitely think more with images.

  8. #18
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    I'm no INTJ, but it's all images in this noggin.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I think in fogs that are neither images nor words, fogs of weighed information that is more sensed than directly looked at.

    If I had to choose, however, I would say I am a little closer to thinking in words than to the kind of the visual thinking associated with autism, which is basically a personal, endless, dynamic series of clear images, a self-produced movie in one's head. I have trouble conjuring up a single clear image of anything; it is always rather the impression of an image than an actual image.
    For me, it's a combination of both of these, depending on my strength of focus. I didn't know the latter was associated with autism, though.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Scheherezade's Avatar
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    mostly images, as i associate them better with ideas, i don`t think i`d remember words as well as i remember a "collage" of images that lead to a main idea..
    hmm.. thinking in words..

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