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  1. #11
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No, we just do the best job of it when we are.

    Seriously, though, Lark has a decent explanation below. Perhaps evil as manifested by other types is just not as entertaining for fictional purposes.
    I totally agree that the best fictional ones are INTJ's, some are ENTJ's, but the I's have it. And i think, on a grand scale if accessible an INTJ could be a damaging force, but you guys seem to lack the irrationality for true evil.

    In real life though, the most damaging people i have encountered have not been INTJ's. Most of them have been unhealthy feelers. Sad to say.

    The one who chased me around the house with an axe after locking all the doors and throwing my keys off the balcony was no intj.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  2. #12
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    I totally agree that the best fictional ones are INTJ's, some are ENTJ's, but the I's have it. And i think, on a grand scale if accessible an INTJ could be a damaging force, but you guys seem to lack the irrationality for true evil.

    In real life though, the most damaging people i have encountered have not been INTJ's. Most of them have been unhealthy feelers. Sad to say.
    I agree with this - not that I've been chased with an axe lately.

    To turn this into a philosophical discussion, assessing how evil INTJs (or an INTJ) are hinges on how you define evil, perhaps more so than other types. This may relate to your statement that we are not irrational enough to be truly evil. Sure - we don't generally chase people around with crude weapons. We do, however, tend to put objective considerations ahead, sometimes far ahead, of personal ones. We think our way is the best way, and will pursue it regardless of the cost, feeling just as much as any F that it is "for the greater good". We don't chase you with a weapon because we don't really need you dead. We just need you off the project, or out of our way at work, or far away from our sister/brother, etc.; or better yet, won over and ready to do our bidding. While all of this is more subtle and less obvious than axe-wielding, it fits many people's definition of evil.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #13
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I agree with this - not that I've been chased with an axe lately.

    To turn this into a philosophical discussion, assessing how evil INTJs (or an INTJ) are hinges on how you define evil, perhaps more so than other types. This may relate to your statement that we are not irrational enough to be truly evil. Sure - we don't generally chase people around with crude weapons. We do, however, tend to put objective considerations ahead, sometimes far ahead, of personal ones. We think our way is the best way, and will pursue it regardless of the cost, feeling just as much as any F that it is "for the greater good". We don't chase you with a weapon because we don't really need you dead. We just need you off the project, or out of our way at work, or far away from our sister/brother, etc.; or better yet, won over and ready to do our bidding. While all of this is more subtle and less obvious than axe-wielding, it fits many people's definition of evil.
    I agree completely. I think definitions of evil are largely subjective and based on a person's experience - or lack there of.

    The axe incident was a moment of irrationality. The person was much more damaging when they were subtle. It was the subtly that was the spirit breaker.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  4. #14
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    i spent a little time at intj forum, and many seemed oblivious to how or why social and emotional data is relevant to decision making or understanding a conversation - it effects behavior and perception. they have rules in place that moderators will come through and delete "unimportant fluff", which in some sort of conversations seems like a major mistake for comprehension.

    otherwise, anyone can be evil.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #15
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I wonder if definitions of evil have a lot to do with behaviors that make an individual feel vulnerable and powerless. In this way the concept of evil is connected to the concept of fear. If a person is vulnerable to manipulation, then that is highlighted as evil. If they feel powerless when attacked concretely, then that is evil, etc.

    I'm not sure how that relates to INTJs, and I don't think there is an "evilest" type. Morality is not defined by type, but manifests itself differently for different personalities.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  6. #16
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    To me this seems very possible. Lots of times in movies it's an INTJ with some ultimate mastermind plan to completely destroy the old systems and revolutionize the world with their own extreme visions of how things should be. Their indomitable willpower and unbreakable determination often seems to be directed towards these kinds of infamous goals.

    So, what do you fellows here on the forum think? Is INTJ the most 'evil' type?
    Hitler was an INFJ.

    Also, an interesting thing about Game of Thrones/Song of Ice and Fire is that it includes some really good feeler villains. Joffrey is not a thinking type, nor is Ramsay Snow. They don't have any reason for harming other people other than the fact that they enjoy it. Being an introverted thinking type, I think this is worse than doing terrible to further some cause or goal. I don't think the latter is acceptable, either, just that I don't see it as being quite as bad.

    Ramsay is more evil than Tywin Lannister, IMO. He's probably the most evil person in the whole series.

    I'm not sure what Walder Frey's type is. He may be an SFJ. Roose might be another NTJ villain, but he has more of Ramsay's sadism than he cares to admit.

    minor spoilers
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  7. #17
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    By evil if you mean cruel, inhumane, antisocial the answer is surely a no. Infact INTJs I know from RL are definitely the most dependable, helpful, humane people I've met though they all tended to patronize others over the smallest mistakes or shortcomings.

    If any type should be discussed in this thread, these are psychopaths. Yes psychopaths do exist and they aren't as anti-heroic as Hannibal nor ethical as Dexter in real life.

  8. #18
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Also....what about ENTP villains like the Joker or the guy from Skyfall? They have that randomness and unpredictability to them like the good FP villains, but they also can hatch pretty elaborate schemes. They just hatch the schemes because they can, but they don't really want anything other than to see how people react, or maybe out of vengeance.

    Ne+Ti is like that, it's attracted to things that are elaborate without any particular purpose. The NTJ villains all want something, like prestige, power, wealth or perhaps a specific cause. They're driven. Emperor Palpatine wants power. The Joker wouldn't give a shit if he became President.

    I've never seen a good INTP villain. We're usually only the villains in stupid "thrillers" where they use the internet to kill people because they're bitter about not getting laid enough or something. ( I saw a movie once that was exactly like that... the lead was someone they got because they couldn't get Jodie Foster.) Lame.

    I do think NTs seem to be the villains a lot of the time, which I find interesting. I suspect that has to do with the feelers being attracted to the storytelling professions. I don't think we're actually more likely to be evil.

    In most stories, "good" NT's are usually a mentor figure, or perhaps a rival who isn't actually a bad dude. It's not that common for them to be the protagonist, which I was I created thread about NT protagonists. That's another thing I like about ASOIAF, actually. We have quite a few.

    NT protagonists seem somewhat more common in the mystery genre.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  9. #19
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    People mistake lack of 'people focus' for the lack of empathy associated with psychopaths. INTJ is almost naieve in its comprehension of other people, coupled with a strong desire to do good. Everyone fears the person who does not make others the centre of their world. Yet true psychopathy is frightening in that others are the focus, coupled with a desire to do real harm. Such intentions are very far away from the desires of an INTJ.

  10. #20
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    Yea, immature feelers, and guardians (xSxJs) have been the most consistently evil and draining in my life. I'd imagine the ESTJ would be the worst, after all that's one of the two most common types for psychopaths. INTJs are just annoying. Well, the males (as I'm a male) anyway. Everything is an offense to them, they get competitive over everything, and their intuition which they trust so highly (and everyone says is so accurate) consistently malfunctions around me making my life hell. Not as bad as xSTJs, though.

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