[INTJ] Calling All INTJs: I am considering becoming INTJ

[violet_crown]

Why would anyone want to be something other than what they are? Seems to cause more trouble than it's worth...

 

[prplchknz]

Why would anyone want to be something other than what they are? Seems to cause more trouble than it's worth...

I dunno being a balloon shaped unicorn might be cool, Id kill evil babies with helium. OMG so much fun. sooo much fun

 

[violet_crown]

I dunno being a balloon shaped unicorn might be cool, Id kill evil babies with helium. OMG so much fun. sooo much fun

What if someone popped you? Then what, huh?

 

[prplchknz]

What if someone popped you? Then what, huh?

i'm not a balloon though, i'm a unicorn in the shape of a balloon

 

[violet_crown]

i'm not a balloon though, i'm a unicorn in the shape of a balloon

I'd say touché, but basically you'd be a gas-filled, meat balloon covered in horse hair. If you're gonna quit yourself, you should set the bar a little higher, I think.

 

[prplchknz]

I'd say touché, but basically you'd be a gas-filled, meat balloon covered in horse hair. If you're gonna quit yourself, you should set the bar a little higher, I think.

why i can't stop anytime i want!!!

 

[violet_crown]

why i can't stop anytime i want!!!

Having given it some thought, I think it'd be fun to be shapeshifter.

 

[prplchknz]

Having given it some thought, I think it'd be fun to be shapeshifter.

I can agree with this

 

[Mal12345]

I wonder about this. Periodically I question whether the personified forces I act like I believe in actually exist, and whether the spirituality I have really is just meaning I attach to things to make myself feel good. I wonder if I need to have a mental back up plan so to speak; to conceive of reality in such a way as to have things all fit together and make me just as happy, without making any meaningful assumptions. Pure logic plus whatever empiricism we are capable of possessing (given that the world of form is largely an illusion and we can't really know anything).

*This is why I try to call myself an atheist and a polytheist/pantheist at the same time. It's complicated.


FWIW I think you could certainly develop your Te and Ni and mimic the INTJ lifestyle and (to some degree) thought patterns. You can cultivate judging behaviors in yourself. However, you can't "become" an INTJ. If you want a community you could also try developing your Fe.

INTP's have an interesting group dynamic, I've noticed. They tend to congregate and form clubs and cliques, Fe-style, but with their inferior Fe they continually eschew such behaviors. They make themselves and each other feel good and offer support, but there's no alliance, permanent social structure, or real connection. They just happen to interact with whoever has good ideas at the time, and that can change in an instant depending on who is nitpicking whom. They vacillate between wanting to connect and wanting to run quickly in the opposite direction. Just a thought.

Personification of forces is an Ni trait. Just saying.

Of course most INTPs have social needs. It's just tiring to an introverted personality.

 

[greenfairy]

Not quite. The ego isn't just your sense of self, but it is your awareness of self, that which you know as self and primarily experiences as self. When the ego is oriented towards a certain function, it just means that function is the dominant. An Ni dominant is ego-oriented towards Ni, because it is Ni that informs the ego and how the ego understands the world. It is not so much the function itself as it is the perspective the function offers that becomes a part of our sense of self, because it structures the ego a certain way.

Oh ok, I see. Thanks. So then the next question I guess becomes how you know what function informs your ego, and other people's. It's one of those things you can get a sense of, and try to figure out using descriptions of functions, but it's kind of vague and intangible.

 

[Mal12345]

Dude, WTF? I would never want to be an INTJ. The only thing I want that they (seem to) have is the lack of procrastination.

And highest IQ on average.

 

[Mal12345]

Not quite. The ego isn't just your sense of self, but it is your awareness of self, that which you know as self and primarily experiences as self. When the ego is oriented towards a certain function, it just means that function is the dominant. An Ni dominant is ego-oriented towards Ni, because it is Ni that informs the ego and how the ego understands the world. It is not so much the function itself as it is the perspective the function offers that becomes a part of our sense of self, because it structures the ego a certain way.

Ok, but with one caution: the unconscious also has an ego.

 

[Mal12345]

Oh ok, I see. Thanks. So then the next question I guess becomes how you know what function informs your ego, and other people's. It's one of those things you can get a sense of, and try to figure out using descriptions of functions, but it's kind of vague and intangible.

You can tell it is someone's conscious ego by the way they react to certain stimuli.

"You did a good job on that math test."

"I know that!" (Or, "I already knew that.")

 

[greenfairy]

Personification of forces is an Ni trait. Just saying.

I don't know about that. It's pretty much a trait of indigenous cultures all over the world, and Chinese philosophy. Though Ni dom/aux may be more attracted to it because it fits the way they think most naturally.

I'm not completely ruling out INFJ. It just seems like when I act outgoing and extroverted I act more like an ENTP than an ENFJ, making it more likely I use Ne.

You can tell it is someone's conscious ego by the way they react to certain stimuli.

"You did a good job on that math test."

"I know that!" (Or, "I already knew that.")

What if they just say "thanks"? That's what I say, because I take it as a compliment. What other sorts of stimuli do you have in mind?

 

[Mal12345]

I don't know about that. It's pretty much a trait of indigenous cultures all over the world, and Chinese philosophy. Though Ni dom/aux may be more attracted to it because it fits the way they think most naturally.

I'm not completely ruling out INFJ. It just seems like when I act outgoing and extroverted I act more like an ENTP than an ENFJ, making it more likely I use Ne.

What if they just say "thanks"? That's what I say, because I take it as a compliment. What other sorts of stimuli do you have in mind?

Then those are Ni dominant cultures. Not that anybody should doubt that as a fact. Orientalism is Ni while Occidentalism is Te.

If you just say "thanks" and really mean it, then Ti (in this case) is not your conscious ego-function. It is, I think (and someone feel free to correct me on this), your Id function.

 

[citizen cane]

I don't know if the INTJ community will take me seriously about this and welcome me into their community. But I come to the forum with this problem because I know my family would not understand it. I was basically raised to be a Perceiver in a Judger family, but only indirectly raised this way because neither of my parents took issue with my being a Perceiver. I was therefore raised to be different, by my family, within the prison-like walls of the cold, uncaring Judging school system, by a Judger's world which expects everybody to effortlessly adapt to its Judging ways. Feeling misunderstood, judged by clinical Judging standards, my personality needs neglected by a cruelly Judging world, I quietly rebelled, and dropped out of society.

However, being a person with strong social needs, I felt my soul also quietly dying. One thing about the INTJs I've known is that they value community, they take it seriously, they pragmatically adopt its ways, something that my sense of authenticity would never allow. But I believe it is more than INTJ strategerie, and that after adopting society's value-structure the INTJs become dependent upon it for their source of identity. This identity is something I've never had, and its lack is a great source of emptiness to me.

I just don't know if I could sincerely denounce my INTP ways, the thought-patterns and beliefs that keep my sense of self relatively stable. If I were to turn against the INTP mental routine and behaviors, would the INTJs merely see me as some kind of traitor? Or would they welcome me into their community with open arms?

If you're viewing type as a matter if choice, you're doing it wrong. Also, I can't help but wonder whether you are perhaps mistakenly equating judging with judgemental or simply are frustrated with Judging preferences and standards; there's likely a thin line between the two I suppose.

 

[Mal12345]

If you're viewing type as a matter if choice, you're doing it wrong. Also, I can't help but wonder whether you are perhaps mistakenly equating judging with judgemental or simply are frustrated with Judging preferences and standards; there's likely a thin line between the two I suppose.

I don't make those kinds of simple mistakes, I've known the difference between Judging and judgmental ever since I read my first MBTI book over 20 years ago. However, even Jung disagrees with you that type can't change. He himself believed that his dominant type changed over the decades.

 

[greenfairy]

Then those are Ni dominant cultures. Not that anybody should doubt that as a fact. Orientalism is Ni while Occidentalism is Te.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? If you go back far enough, pretty much every culture thought this way. The Chinese just refined it into a more sophisticated, logically organized system, and were too stubborn to change their ways in response to modernization.

If you just say "thanks" and really mean it, then Ti (in this case) is not your conscious ego-function. It is, I think (and someone feel free to correct me on this), your Id function.

What's an id function? And if not Ti then what do you think is if I say thanks in response to a compliment? That is the socially appropriate response.

 

[Mal12345]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? If you go back far enough, pretty much every culture thought this way. The Chinese just refined it into a more sophisticated, logically organized system, and were too stubborn to change their ways in response to modernization.

What's an id function? And if not Ti then what do you think is if I say thanks in response to a compliment? That is the socially appropriate response.

I'm focusing on which comes "last," which is how things are today. And that consists of an intellectual divide between East and West ways of thinking.

An Id function is based on the pleasure/pain mechanism of the psyche, and how your conscious ego channels it. Pleasure and pain are nothing in and of themselves, just biological reactions. The result of processing them through a function is enjoyment and suffering, respectively. Once the function is removed, enjoyment and suffering are also removed, leaving the mere sensation of pleasure or pain that is therefore neither judged good nor bad for you (your ego).

Your Id response is to take pleasure in the compliment, and in your case Ti is the function that wants to be developed therefore it enjoys being rewarded. In this way, your Ti function can grow stronger and merge with the ego. Your functions that are already developed don't care about being rewarded. In fact, the idea of being rewarded might seem insulting to them.

I'm assuming, anyway, that your "thanks" response is based on sincere gratitude and not merely a social function (super-ego).

 

[greenfairy]

An Id function is based on the pleasure/pain mechanism of the psyche, and how your conscious ego channels it. Pleasure and pain are nothing in and of themselves, just biological reactions. The result of processing them through a function is enjoyment and suffering, respectively. Once the function is removed, enjoyment and suffering are also removed, leaving the mere sensation of pleasure or pain that is therefore neither judged good nor bad for you (your ego).

Your Id response is to take pleasure in the compliment, and in your case Ti is the function that wants to be developed therefore it enjoys being rewarded. In this way, your Ti function can grow stronger and merge with the ego. Your functions that are already developed don't care about being rewarded. In fact, the idea of being rewarded might seem insulting to them.

I'm assuming, anyway, that your "thanks" response is based on sincere gratitude and not merely a social function (super-ego).

Well, I think I would respond this way to a lot of things. I think in this case it's more about Te than Ti; if someone just compliments my logic or reasoning or whatever, I don't take it that way, because I'm much more confident in that than my ability to accomplish things. Doing well on a test means an accomplishment of some sort. I think the function which most enjoys being rewarded is being desired and wanted by people, socially and physically. I think there are degrees of this for different functions. But it's an interesting theory; I'm going to look it up.