User Tag List

First 678910 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 102

  1. #71
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Nope.

    In all likelihood, nothing even remotely close to such statistics exist.

    But one can do a back-of-the-envelope estimate, based on statistics that do exist, and a few assumptions.

    INTJs are somewhere around 1%-3% of the population, depending on which source you look at.

    6s are ~20%-25% of the INTJ population, based on the only statistics that I believe exist (and almost all those would likely be 6w5s).

    And, lastly, sx's are believed to be the least common of the three instinctual variants, with sx/so being less common than sx/sp.

    I figure the ratio in society to be something like 50%-60% sp, 30%-40% so, and ~10% sx.

    That would make sx/so's, at most, be ~5% of the population.

    More realistically, they're probably about half, or less, the population of sx/sp's.

    So something like 2-3% for sx/so's wouldn't be a horrible assumption, and likely nothing higher than 5%.

    Assuming sx/so's aren't any less common amongst INTJs than other MBTI types (which may not be a good assumption), this would yield, at a low, something like .005% (1% INTJs x 20% INTJs as 6w5s x 2.5% INTJ 6w5s as sx/so's = 1/20,000), and, at a high, something like .0375% (3% INTJs x 25% INTJ as 6w5s x 5% INTJ 6w5s as sx/so's = 1/2667) of the population being INTJ 6w5 sx/so's.

    The actual number probably lies within that range, and no higher than 1/1333 (shifting the last assumption all the way to 10%).

    Take the average of the high and low ends of the range, and you get somewhere around 1/12000, or .0083% of the population.
    If there are 16 MBTI types, 9 enneagram types, 9 instinctual stackings (3x3) then that comes out to 1296 possible combinations. On average then you could be .08% likely to be any particular type. Thus we are all special snowflakes. I suppose that doesn't work though because some just don't go together - like INFP 8s or something. Still, it provides some sense as to the granularity and richness of the systems when used in combination with each other. I wonder how far all of this will ultimately go. If you combine DNA testing, psychological testing, MBTI and enneagram, family history, spending habits etc., I suppose you could know an awful lot about a person and if you could then do analytics on populations, it would be even more interesting. I assume this kind of thing is done already with certain types of criminals (like terrorists) but don't know much about it.

    Maybe this is off topic but your post got me thinking.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  2. #72
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    MBTI
    iNfj
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,042

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    It means your sense of identity is still dependent upon your parents' expectations for you.
    Aren't most people's? Of course, I find it difficult to have a sense of identity independent from anything. If there were no other people in the world I would probably think I wasn't a separate thing at all, just a bit of consciousness floating around becoming whatever I was interacting with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    I don't find it extremely difficult at all. Consider for example what you wrote here that I bolded. That's for instance a sentiment sensors tend to share because it's how sensation operates. Sensation types seek the tangible and concrete reality, intuitives see the patterns that glues this reality together. So what does it mean that you express this then? In terms of ego, you probably prefer sensation.
    And this is probably the only thing which suggests me being a sensor, but it is very true. I don't really connect concepts to reality without something tangible. If I've observed it before, or it is made up of things I've observed, I can put the pieces together. I'm very much an idea person though. I don't figure out the details of things until after the idea is formed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    The way you look for cognition in people can thus be through many different ways, but I tend to be interested in how what people express seems to be a reflection of how they operate on the inside. As a whole it's of course more difficult to see oneself than it is to see other people, because seeing oneself requires a different kind of self-awareness.
    Once again, over my head most of the time. In typology terms anyway. I'm pretty intuitive with picking up on feelings, thought patterns, and experiences.

  3. #73
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    Will
    Posts
    5,927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Aren't most people's? Of course, I find it difficult to have a sense of identity independent from anything. If there were no other people in the world I would probably think I wasn't a separate thing at all, just a bit of consciousness floating around becoming whatever I was interacting with.
    You sound like the Sith Emperor in Star Wars (not Darth Sidious; older time period), when he schemed to annihilate all life in the universe and feed its power into his consciousness.

    And this is probably the only thing which suggests me being a sensor, but it is very true. I don't really connect concepts to reality without something tangible. If I've observed it before, or it is made up of things I've observed, I can put the pieces together. I'm very much an idea person though. I don't figure out the details of things until after the idea is formed.
    Your comment about things being 'vague and intangible' I don't think is related to sensing. I think it's just something open-minded people in general tend to say when things are uncertain, and since they can't perceive it all completely, they think about it more rather than making hasty conclusions about 'what it is', or so they would like to think it is.

    Once again, over my head most of the time. In typology terms anyway. I'm pretty intuitive with picking up on feelings, thought patterns, and experiences.
    Keep on seeking these things, but just don't ever stop your search if you believe to have gathered (what seems to be) all of the answers, because we have always found that whenever we thought the journey was over, a new horizon appeared over the mountain.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Aren't most people's? Of course, I find it difficult to have a sense of identity independent from anything. If there were no other people in the world I would probably think I wasn't a separate thing at all, just a bit of consciousness floating around becoming whatever I was interacting with.
    That's definitely a description coming from a 9. The MBTI doesn't offer anything in the realm of personal growth, but Riso's enneagram does. If I were you I would start by studying his description of the 9 in Personality Types.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #75
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    If there are 16 MBTI types, 9 enneagram types, 9 instinctual stackings (3x3) then that comes out to 1296 possible combinations. On average then you could be .08% likely to be any particular type. Thus we are all special snowflakes. I suppose that doesn't work though because some just don't go together - like INFP 8s or something. Still, it provides some sense as to the granularity and richness of the systems when used in combination with each other. I wonder how far all of this will ultimately go. If you combine DNA testing, psychological testing, MBTI and enneagram, family history, spending habits etc., I suppose you could know an awful lot about a person and if you could then do analytics on populations, it would be even more interesting. I assume this kind of thing is done already with certain types of criminals (like terrorists) but don't know much about it.

    Maybe this is off topic but your post got me thinking.
    I was actually gunna start another thread on this.

    Your assumptions actually should be tweaked, imo.

    16 MBTI types x 18 enneagram types (when combined with wings [or 27, if no wing is included as a type; or 36 if no wing and double wing is included]) x 6 instinctual stackings (it's not 3x3; it's 3x2x1) = 1/1728.

    As you said, tho, many types just don't make sense, and the probabilities are pretty high that certain MBTI types will be certain enneagram types, and then that those enneagram types will be certain instinctual stackings (SpSo>SoSp>SpSx>SoSx>SxSp>SxSo -- or something close to that, likely), so, yesterday, I kinda did a quick in-my-head calculation of what a common type would be:

    ESFJs are ~12% of the population x 36% (at least) are enneagram 2s x SpSo at 50% = ~2%+ are ESFJ 2 SpSo (roughly)

    So that's 1/50 for that combination, and if we split evenly between 2w1 and 2w3, then that's 1/100 for each.

    That's versus what I figure would be something more like 1/10000+ for INTJ 6w5 sx/so.

    So, indeed, some are rarer than others (which should be expected).

  6. #76
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    The unconscious ego is infantile, childishly emotional, and always thinks it is right. The unconscious ego is also the motivator for defense mechanisms. The unconscious ego operates in the background of consciousness, you're not supposed to be aware of its existence, but its presence is seen in the behavior of the less conscious functions. The unconscious ego, once observed, can be seen to be very predictable, unlike conscious ego-driven behavior which is more directed by the will and is thus less predictable.
    I have no idea where you get this from, but this has nothing to do with what Jung wrote about consciousness-unconsciousness.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Aren't most people's? Of course, I find it difficult to have a sense of identity independent from anything. If there were no other people in the world I would probably think I wasn't a separate thing at all, just a bit of consciousness floating around becoming whatever I was interacting with.
    I doubt this is a commonly shared experience with you. I don't share this experience at all. I experience myself as very independent from other people. I am my own entity.

    And this is probably the only thing which suggests me being a sensor, but it is very true. I don't really connect concepts to reality without something tangible. If I've observed it before, or it is made up of things I've observed, I can put the pieces together. I'm very much an idea person though. I don't figure out the details of things until after the idea is formed.
    Being an ideas-person has nothing to do with intuition, though. It's not like sensors cannot think or have ideas, of course they can, but the question becomes how these ideas actually pertain to reality as they perceive it. It's difficult to explain intuition in general. Jung described it as the ability to see what's around the corner when you can only see the corner. So it's not whether one is ideas-oriented, but whether one is more focused on the corner or what is behind the corner. When I type people, I don't care how they come across as much as I care about how they come across says something about what is behind the corner. That is intuition. Intuition is oriented towards patterns and trends finding, and that's about it.

    Once again, over my head most of the time. In typology terms anyway. I'm pretty intuitive with picking up on feelings, thought patterns, and experiences.
    This just seems to be intuition in a general sense, not necessarily Jungian intuition. Fe types are very good at reading the feelings of other people for example. Again look at what you emphasized here: Feelings, thoughts patterns of other people (how they think and feel) and experiences. So strongly indicative of Si-Fe cognition as I typed you as long time ago already, but you were very resistant to that suggestion then.
    @highlander why cannot an INFP be a type 8? Type 8 is simply a specific defense strategy in how you nagivate the world through. I would say that Fi dominance and type 8 is very compatible, because the enneatype motivations will simply line up with the Jungian cognition. Take Nero from the Devil May Cry 4 game. I would easily type him as an ISFP 8.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  7. #77
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    I have no idea where you get this from, but this has nothing to do with what Jung wrote about consciousness-unconsciousness.
    Try this Jung quote then:

    "The measure of extraversion in the conscious attitude entails a like degree of infantilism and archaism in the attitude of the unconscious. The egoism which so often characterizes the extravert's unconscious attitude goes far beyond mere childish selfishness; it even verges upon the wicked and brutal. It is here we find in fullest bloom that incest-wish described by Freud. It is self-evident that these things are entirely unconscious, remaining altogether hidden from the eyes of the uninitiated observer so long as the extraversion of the conscious attitude does not reach an extreme stage." (Psychological Types, 424.)

    My thought that the unconscious ego is predictable is my own observation from experience, not Jung's.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #78
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Try this Jung quote then:

    "The measure of extraversion in the conscious attitude entails a like degree of infantilism and archaism in the attitude of the unconscious. The egoism which so often characterizes the extravert's unconscious attitude goes far beyond mere childish selfishness; it even verges upon the wicked and brutal. It is here we find in fullest bloom that incest-wish described by Freud. It is self-evident that these things are entirely unconscious, remaining altogether hidden from the eyes of the uninitiated observer so long as the extraversion of the conscious attitude does not reach an extreme stage." (Psychological Types, 424.)

    My thought that the unconscious ego is predictable is my own observation from experience, not Jung's.
    And please tell me, where does Jung once indicate that the unconsciouss is in possession of its own ego in this quote? This sentence is extremely taken out of context since "egoism" actually means that, egoism, which is very different to the word "egoic". I question your reading comprehension abilities.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  9. #79
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    MBTI
    iNfj
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,042

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    I doubt this is a commonly shared experience with you. I don't share this experience at all. I experience myself as very independent from other people. I am my own entity.
    You are a type 5 though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    Being an ideas-person has nothing to do with intuition, though. It's not like sensors cannot think or have ideas, of course they can, but the question becomes how these ideas actually pertain to reality as they perceive it. It's difficult to explain intuition in general. Jung described it as the ability to see what's around the corner when you can only see the corner. So it's not whether one is ideas-oriented, but whether one is more focused on the corner or what is behind the corner. When I type people, I don't care how they come across as much as I care about how they come across says something about what is behind the corner. That is intuition. Intuition is oriented towards patterns and trends finding, and that's about it.

    This just seems to be intuition in a general sense, not necessarily Jungian intuition. Fe types are very good at reading the feelings of other people for example. Again look at what you emphasized here: Feelings, thoughts patterns of other people (how they think and feel) and experiences. So strongly indicative of Si-Fe cognition as I typed you as long time ago already, but you were very resistant to that suggestion then.
    N's are more oriented towards ideas for their own sake, whereas sensors see them as more a means to an end. I've heard sensors when working on project tend to gather data and details and then put them together into an overall picture, and people using cognitive intuition will first get an idea and then work on the details. I don't know how accurate that is, since most people start off with some idea; but I hardly ever do it the sensing way. I find the details of an idea's realization boring. Aesthetic details I am happy to plan, but practical details like logistics aren't something I'm good at.

    I have thought about what you said and seriously considered it, but I don't think I fit inferior Ne and I don't seem that much like the ISFJ's I've encountered. Granted I don't know many; but we have some striking differences.

  10. #80
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    @highlander why cannot an INFP be a type 8? Type 8 is simply a specific defense strategy in how you nagivate the world through. I would say that Fi dominance and type 8 is very compatible, because the enneatype motivations will simply line up with the Jungian cognition. Take Nero from the Devil May Cry 4 game. I would easily type him as an ISFP 8.
    I guess it's possible just not likely.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1949082

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1949102

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

Similar Threads

  1. Calling all Muslims: I am considering becoming Muslim
    By Newbyagain in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 201
    Last Post: 01-04-2015, 04:04 PM
  2. Calling all INTJs, INFJs, ENTJs, ENFJs, ISFPs, ISTPS, ESFPs, ESTPs...
    By VagrantFarce in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 08-10-2012, 02:18 AM
  3. [INTJ] Calling Female INTJs - Fulfilling Relationships?
    By thescientist in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-27-2010, 10:40 PM
  4. [SP] Calling all SPs... opinions on INTJs
    By mystify529 in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-20-2009, 12:45 AM
  5. [MBTItm] Calling all shoppers...
    By Sandy in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 11-26-2007, 05:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO