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  1. #61
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Well, I think I would respond this way to a lot of things. I think in this case it's more about Te than Ti; if someone just compliments my logic or reasoning or whatever, I don't take it that way, because I'm much more confident in that than my ability to accomplish things. Doing well on a test means an accomplishment of some sort. I think the function which most enjoys being rewarded is being desired and wanted by people, socially and physically. I think there are degrees of this for different functions. But it's an interesting theory; I'm going to look it up.
    Another question is: how would you feel and respond if you were criticized for only getting a 98% on the math test in the example?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #62
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I don't make those kinds of simple mistakes, I've known the difference between Judging and judgmental ever since I read my first MBTI book over 20 years ago. However, even Jung disagrees with you that type can't change. He himself believed that his dominant type changed over the decades.
    I'm not saying that type can't change. I'm saying that it's not something one can healthily change via conscious effort.
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  3. #63
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Another question is: how would you feel and respond if you were criticized for only getting a 98% on the math test in the example?
    It would depend on who it was. If it was my parents I'd feel bad because they expected me to be perfect. Otherwise I'd just feel like the person was being a jerk, because they would be, and then just forget about it. How would you feel?

  4. #64
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    It would depend on who it was. If it was my parents I'd feel bad because they expected me to be perfect. Otherwise I'd just feel like the person was being a jerk, because they would be, and then just forget about it. How would you feel?
    I'm not the subject of this part of the thread. The question is how you would respond, and "feel bad" isn't an emotion. When I'm sick I "feel bad."

    If you feel like the person was being a jerk, then I can't readily differentiate that response from either your feelings about the test result, or your values concerning social politeness. But it's possible.

    No matter how I analyze your responses, I keep coming back to INFJ for you. But that's not the point of this. I wonder how many of your test results are based on how you see yourself, or how you would like others (e.g., your parents) to see you: the perfectionist side of you.

    As for the Id/Ego/Superego question, "feeling bad" comes from the Superego. It reveals an inadequacy or a vulnerability (your kryptonite) that your parents are able to take advantage of and control you through.

    I'm beginning to conclude that you are not completely individuated, and that this is the main problem behind your efforts at determining your type.

    As for the person who you thought of as a jerk, and then forgot about the issue, that response comes from the Id. Fe is a function which you are aware of and probably skilled at, but consider superfluous.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #65
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I'm not the subject of this part of the thread.
    No, but it would be useful to compare our responses, since you are sure of your type (and pretty much everyone else is). Then based on that I can understand your reasoning and evaluate it. I'm not going to take seriously an "experiment" I don't understand, or someone's conclusions for which I can't follow the reasoning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    The question is how you would respond, and "feel bad" isn't an emotion. When I'm sick I "feel bad."
    I guess I'd feel inadequate for a bit, since my first instinct is to base my self worth on others' assessments. Then I'd realize their judgment was ridiculous and they weren't saying it for constructive criticism (unless they were, in which case I'd take it as such and not feel much at all); whatever other reasons they would have for criticizing me therefore would probably not be constructive, i.e. being a jerk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    If you feel like the person was being a jerk, then I can't readily differentiate that response from either your feelings about the test result, or your values concerning social politeness. But it's possible.

    No matter how I analyze your responses, I keep coming back to INFJ for you. But that's not the point of this. I wonder how many of your test results are based on how you see yourself, or how you would like others (e.g., your parents) to see you: the perfectionist side of you.

    As for the Id/Ego/Superego question, "feeling bad" comes from the Superego. It reveals an inadequacy or a vulnerability (your kryptonite) that your parents are able to take advantage of and control you through.

    I'm beginning to conclude that you are not completely individuated, and that this is the main problem behind your efforts at determining your type.

    As for the person who you thought of as a jerk, and then forgot about the issue, that response comes from the Id. Fe is a function which you are aware of and probably skilled at, but consider superfluous.
    Well it's possible. Like I say, I'm not ruling it out. I just have more things pointing to other conclusions.

    What does it mean to say I'm not completely individuated?

  6. #66
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Ok well, while you work on becoming an INTJ I will work on becoming an ENTP. Deal?

  7. #67
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    It would depend on who it was. If it was my parents I'd feel bad because they expected me to be perfect. Otherwise I'd just feel like the person was being a jerk, because they would be, and then just forget about it. How would you feel?
    Not the same way.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #68
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    No, but it would be useful to compare our responses, since you are sure of your type (and pretty much everyone else is). Then based on that I can understand your reasoning and evaluate it. I'm not going to take seriously an "experiment" I don't understand, or someone's conclusions for which I can't follow the reasoning.

    I guess I'd feel inadequate for a bit, since my first instinct is to base my self worth on others' assessments. Then I'd realize their judgment was ridiculous and they weren't saying it for constructive criticism (unless they were, in which case I'd take it as such and not feel much at all); whatever other reasons they would have for criticizing me therefore would probably not be constructive, i.e. being a jerk.

    Well it's possible. Like I say, I'm not ruling it out. I just have more things pointing to other conclusions.

    What does it mean to say I'm not completely individuated?
    It means your sense of identity is still dependent upon your parents' expectations for you.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #69
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Oh ok, I see. Thanks. So then the next question I guess becomes how you know what function informs your ego, and other people's. It's one of those things you can get a sense of, and try to figure out using descriptions of functions, but it's kind of vague and intangible.
    I don't find it extremely difficult at all. Consider for example what you wrote here that I bolded. That's for instance a sentiment sensors tend to share because it's how sensation operates. Sensation types seek the tangible and concrete reality, intuitives see the patterns that glues this reality together. So what does it mean that you express this then? In terms of ego, you probably prefer sensation.

    The way you look for cognition in people can thus be through many different ways, but I tend to be interested in how what people express seems to be a reflection of how they operate on the inside. As a whole it's of course more difficult to see oneself than it is to see other people, because seeing oneself requires a different kind of self-awareness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Ok, but with one caution: the unconscious also has an ego.
    No, it doesn't, because the unconsciousness functions opposite of the ego. The unconsciousness acts independently of the ego, but it is not the same as being the ego.

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  10. #70
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    No, it doesn't, because the unconsciousness functions opposite of the ego. The unconsciousness acts independently of the ego, but it is not the same as being the ego.
    The unconscious ego is infantile, childishly emotional, and always thinks it is right. The unconscious ego is also the motivator for defense mechanisms. The unconscious ego operates in the background of consciousness, you're not supposed to be aware of its existence, but its presence is seen in the behavior of the less conscious functions. The unconscious ego, once observed, can be seen to be very predictable, unlike conscious ego-driven behavior which is more directed by the will and is thus less predictable.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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