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View Poll Results: Do INTJs Overdevelop Thinking and Underdevelop Intuition

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  • Yes, please explain

    3 23.08%
  • No, please explain

    10 76.92%
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  1. #11
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    The role of Te would still be auxiliary, aka aiding Ni, whereas ENTJs lead with Te and use Ni to verify the direction they are going.

    The strength of the function =/= the role of the function. Certain environmental stressors for instance can cause someone to reject their dominant function in favor of their aux, or work out their tertiary more than their secondary as the situation calls for it. This does not change their order of preference in choosing the primary over the secondary over the tertiary. It just means that the lesser preferred function is more applicable to their situation.
    This^
    To add to this Te the INTJ judgement function as I said before is very objective so perhaps the INTJ finds Te more applicable to situations than Ni. In other words INTJ's may reject their dom function more so than other types because their dom function Ni can be seen to be in conflict with what they would value while making judgments with Te. I mean I don't see an INTJ trusting a hunch to the point where they begin to disregard objective information in favor of their instincts.
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  2. #12
    Senior Member Scheherezade's Avatar
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    i think i need better Te in order to use Ni at its best, so yes

  3. #13
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    I think Ni would still be developing faster than any other function however the Te would be something they would aspire to develop more than anything else. On the whole I think Pe and Pi doms would aspire to develop their auxilary function more than their J-dom counterparts due to an enchanced feeling of necessity (though IJs and EPs would do for other reasons. Not a situation limited to INTJs.

    IJs lack the inner world scrutiny and criticism which strong Fi/Ji creates and because of this have no real way of determining the validity of their impressions and perceptions themselves. Thus developing Je allows them to have some way to determine accuracy. EPs possess excellent flexibility and real world perception however need some way of reining in their perceptions, ideas or potential opportunities through their own judgment if Fe or Te is inflexible or insufficient.

    These are just my conclusions so please advise if inaccurate.

  4. #14
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iNtrovert View Post

    Interesting thought. I think I see where your going with this. So Ni Te dom and aux function in the INTJ. Ni being abstract and not very concrete and Te being a very objective judgement function might cause an INTJ to favor Te opposed to Ni. Ni might give them a hunch something is right Te drives them find hard facts it is right.If Ni is wrong then INTJ is thanking god they had Te to tell them so. This could cause them to devalue Ni hunches over Te objectiveness or something like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    The role of Te would still be auxiliary, aka aiding Ni, whereas ENTJs lead with Te and use Ni to verify the direction they are going.

    The strength of the function =/= the role of the function. Certain environmental stressors for instance can cause someone to reject their dominant function in favor of their aux, or work out their tertiary more than their secondary as the situation calls for it. This does not change their order of preference in choosing the primary over the secondary over the tertiary. It just means that the lesser preferred function is more applicable to their situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I think INTJ's over develop their ENFP's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I think Ni would still be developing faster than any other function however the Te would be something they would aspire to develop more than anything else. On the whole I think Pe and Pi doms would aspire to develop their auxilary function more than their J-dom counterparts due to an enchanced feeling of necessity (though IJs and EPs would do for other reasons. Not a situation limited to INTJs.

    IJs lack the inner world scrutiny and criticism which strong Fi/Ji creates and because of this have no real way of determining the validity of their impressions and perceptions themselves. Thus developing Je allows them to have some way to determine accuracy. EPs possess excellent flexibility and real world perception however need some way of reining in their perceptions, ideas or potential opportunities through their own judgment if Fe or Te is inflexible or insufficient.

    These are just my conclusions so please advise if inaccurate.
    My thoughts on all this:

    Te is very much accepted and valued in society. Si is the norm. Se is tied to how we live in the world - look at when we were mostly farmers, hunters, etc. Functions like Ti, Fe, and Ne are very common as well. There are social pressures to value certain functions over others. Ni is the most unpopular function by a longshot. It has not historically been appreciated or valued by society.

    I believe the impact of this is that the INTJ devalues Ni and overemphasizes Te - or at least that is what happened in my case. It is a good thing in one way because developing an auxiliary function is important from a personal growth perspective. At the same time, you don't appreciate who you are and I think it is important to trust the dominant function. When you are growing up as an Ni dom, you feel distinctly different than other people. There is pressure to conform. I was quite ambitious and felt myself pressured to be more ISTJ-like. At the same time, I was jealous of the EXTJs and those with strong Se - wishing to be more like them.
    @uumlau @Zarathustra @fia @fidelia @cafe @Haight and others - thoughts on Ni as a primary function and how you felt growing up and into early adulthood?

    Another observation I'd have is that it seems to be shifting. Ni and Fe seem to be gaining in popularity somehow. I think it has something to do with the impact of technology on society.

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  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    I think the stronger Te than Ni is just a persona many INTJs put on and many may overcompensate Te in order to not look irrational to others and some may start to relate to this Te persona too much, which will inhibit their proper usage of Fi and may even start to lose the stength of their Ni, as they need to use all other functions properly in order to use Ni properly.
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  6. #16
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Do you think INTJs overdevelop Te and underdevelop Ni (or something similar to those lines)?

    Please explain your thoughts/reasoning. If you think they do,
    1. why do you think this happens?
    2. what is the impact on the INTJs development as a person? and
    3. how does it effect their lives?
    I think all introverted types develop our (by definition) extraverted aux functions more than extraverts develop their introverted aux. We have more incentive to do so just to interact with the world in daily life. The particular utility of Te adds more motivation. I have seen Te described as the "least common denominator" function, in that it deals with external, objectively verifiable facts and evaluations. The comment was meant to be derogatory, suggesting that Te lacks creativity, insight, motivation, in short the richer and more meaningful aspects of human thought. It is often, however, what gets everyone on the same page, operating with the same facts and structure, so they can go on productively developing those higher concepts.

    As an INTJ develops aux Te, it does not take him/her long to appreciate how useful it is not only in evaluating and tweaking Ni(Fi) visions and plans, but also in getting other people to understand and support them. This ability to improve and to communicate leads to greater success in putting plans into action. INTJs may suffer more than other types when our aux is underdeveloped, because of the nature of Ni as Highlander describes above. Add to this how much INTJs value utility and getting things done, and the effectiveness of Te motivates us to develop it even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by iNtrovert View Post
    To add to this Te the INTJ judgement function as I said before is very objective so perhaps the INTJ finds Te more applicable to situations than Ni. In other words INTJ's may reject their dom function more so than other types because their dom function Ni can be seen to be in conflict with what they would value while making judgments with Te. I mean I don't see an INTJ trusting a hunch to the point where they begin to disregard objective information in favor of their instincts.
    INTJs are often accused of doing exactly that - plowing ahead with closed-minded certitude, under the influence of some grand vision that has never been cross-checked with reality. Yes, we are known for molding reality to fit our visions, but we are still working with the raw materials reality gives us.

    As for rejecting Ni, we might throw out a particular Ni idea from time to time, but that isn't the same thing as distrusting and de-emphasizing the function overall.

    Developing Te is in general a very good thing for INTJs. The idea of overdevelopment implies that there can be too much of a good thing. When this happens, I think it is less from any conscious rejection of Ni, or even individual Ni ideas, as from the simple fact that time spent focusing on A reduces the time focusing on B. For me this happens when I get drawn into the detailed execution of projects, having to bother with schedules and spreadsheets, regulations and paperwork. I start to feel very separated from the higher level concepts, which feels stifiling. It is as if my world has become two-dimensional. As soon as these demands let up and time permits, I have to get back to the bigger picture thinking. Interestingly, a quick way to short circuit this is to do something Se-like, very concrete, physical, and in-the-moment. Exercise, playing music, or handcrafting usually work.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    INTJs are often accused of doing exactly that - plowing ahead with closed-minded certitude, under the influence of some grand vision that has never been cross-checked with reality. Yes, we are known for molding reality to fit our visions, but we are still working with the raw materials reality gives us.
    very good point
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  8. #18
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    I don't think the question is especially meaningful. I'm sorry, you don't just go, "Hey, I think I'll develop my Te, now," or "I think it's time to work on Fi."

    We need to remember that the functions are "how you think", and it's remarkably difficult to "think about how you think". Even back when I was still in single-digit ages, I recall "thinking about thinking about thinking about thinking" and noting that it was just an endless recursion. In the end, you don't really understand how you think without a great deal of self awareness or a good strong structure/language upon which one can rely to describe and develop such an understanding.

    One of the things I learned as I investigated the functions is that Ni, for me, really is "how I think." Not just sort of. Not just in an unconscious way. Not just in an "intuitive" way. It's how I synthesize my understanding of the world around me. Te lends a degree of sanity, but no it doesn't even begin to drive my thought process.

    I can look back on my life, before I did school, in preschool and kindergarten, in elementary and middle school, in high school, in college and graduate school, I was always using Ni. There was no way I could emphasize Te to a degree greater than I used Ni. When I pay attention to how I learned, how I developed understanding, it was always via Ni. Te was always secondary, providing a means of support, verifying that my Ni-understanding reflected reality, enabling me to communicate my Ni-vision to those who regard my intuitions as surprising and inobvious.

    The reason I know that Ni is dominant for me is that I don't do "calculations" in my head: I "see" the answer. Where people get confused about Ni is that it is so often associated with "Ah ha!" insights or other intuitive leaps, when for me, there is no "insight", there is no, "Ah ha!", there is no intuitive leap. I simply just keep on looking at the input data and switch out contexts, eventually hitting upon a context that fits everything I've observed, at which point I use that context to leap to new ideas outside the context.

    Now, all INTJs tend to emphasize Te to a degree, but that has nothing to do with "overdevelopment" of Te or underdevelopment of intuition. It has to do with the ability to use Te to turn our intuitive grasp of everything into something concrete enough that we can verify our understanding. We don't "overdevelop" Te so much as rely upon Te to allow communication of our more complicated ideas, especially in early years.

    These days, I incorporate Fi ad Se, because Ni and Te alone leave a bunch of ideas and understandings unaddressed. Ni-Te needs a conclusion. Fi-Se simply needs to understand what IS and eventually perhaps develop a values-based understanding of the world.
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  9. #19
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    inf/tjs can both certainly overcompensate (e18 intjs and e1 infj), whereas 4569s appear to feel particularly at ease expressing themselves through the more fluid world of Ni.

    I've always kind of marveled at the spontaneity in the creative process for intj5s and have wondered what it's like for intjs interacting over enneagram lines.

    thinking of you

  10. #20
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    @highlander If I may, how did you determine that Ni is the most undervalued function by a longshot? Whilst to me it seems intuitively correct my study of history seems to suggest that ancient peoples admired Ni in its own way whilst Fi and Ti have always occupied a position of indifference or inconvenience and eclipsed by their extroverted function counterparts. In times of relative powerlessness ancient people would look to anyone who could provide them the advantage - seers who could predict the extent which the Nile would fertilise the Egyptian flood plains this year, those who claimed to be able to interpret the stars or read tea leaves to advise the outcome of battles or those who could claim communication with the Gods to determine whether good fortune would come to a people or bad times. Egypt, Persia, Ancient Rome, India all valued such things. Plenty of Ni or Ni wannabes around with impressions of it woven into the fabric of society which was gradually rooted out (Christian church was probably at fault.)

    On the other hand how many Ji-doms through history have been valued or understood? It's usually those in the right place at the right time to have other types adopt their views or publish their views.

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