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  1. #1
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    Default Ne dom in the judgement of others

    or rather, being judged for not following through:

    at any given period of time, i would likely be working on some projects based on those that contribute the most on where i want to go.

    but anyone who talks to me on for a minimum amount of time or catches me in the right mood is going to hear dozens of ideas being thrown out of my mouth... books, software, political, movie scripts, ideas on how to fix the structural problems of charity institutions, furniture designs, business model, the occasional robot.. and for the most part, each and every single one of those would require years of dedication, unless you have the power of a world corporation, and probably even then, there is no way to follow through with every idea or even most of your ideas.
    and for those you do think seriously about, i will find many of them having flaws, not being the best of ideas, having negative implications i disagree with, and in the end: not being worthy of taking the time and resources that other ideas demand. there's a filtration process that happens after the thought.

    i consider this a rather rational process, generate and filter - i wouldn't have it any other way. but on a sociological level, this means people are constantly going to hear me coming up with ideas that i do nothing with. this creates a sense of disappointment in others, and to some extent not being taken as seriously.

    does this happen to others? how do you approach this?

  2. #2
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    or rather, being judged for not following through:

    at any given period of time, i would likely be working on some projects based on those that contribute the most on where i want to go.

    but anyone who talks to me on for a minimum amount of time or catches me in the right mood is going to hear dozens of ideas being thrown out of my mouth... books, software, political, movie scripts, ideas on how to fix the structural problems of charity institutions, furniture designs, business model, the occasional robot.. and for the most part, each and every single one of those would require years of dedication, unless you have the power of a world corporation, and probably even then, there is no way to follow through with every idea or even most of your ideas.
    and for those you do think seriously about, i will find many of them having flaws, not being the best of ideas, having negative implications i disagree with, and in the end: not being worthy of taking the time and resources that other ideas demand. there's a filtration process that happens after the thought.

    i consider this a rather rational process, generate and filter - i wouldn't have it any other way. but on a sociological level, this means people are constantly going to hear me coming up with ideas that i do nothing with. this creates a sense of disappointment in others, and to some extent not being taken as seriously.

    does this happen to others? how do you approach this?
    While I've experienced more instances of 'not being taken seriously' than I can count...it has never been for the reasons you outline above. What I often run into is merely...people being *surprised* that I actually comprehend some scientific theory or complex mathematical equation...and am met with 'Wait what? You're actually following this?' Or they have a look of total confusion when I mention something that I've done in my life. Some people have been direct in saying 'I would never have thought...' but for the most part you can just see the look of wtf? on their faces. I don't know if the ENTPs experience this. And if they do if it is more likely to be experienced by female ENTPs...but I've heard this complaint enough from ENFPs to feel comfortable in the belief that it's not 'just me.' I think if you are relatively cheerful, prone to the occasional zaniness, and feel most natural when processing information externally (outloud)...the chances 'average folk' will underestimate your intellectual abilities are greatly increased (I've personally witnessed ESFPs and ISFPs being met with this kind of thing as well...which while it doesn't really bother me when I experience it...it bothers me when I see it happening to others. Shit maybe it's just a general 'cheerfulness' that automatically makes you 'simpleminded' - idk).

    Now, I have an ENFP 7w6 brother. Which while we are very similar in some ways there are some obvious differences that really set us apart that I can't seem to completely account for. I think we are a 'living' example of just how influential instinctual variants really are as far as personality is concerned. And, likewise, I've considered the possibility that he really is ENxP or an ENfP...however you want to put it. Anyway, I'm wondering if you are presenting your ideas in the same way he does. You see, I don't necessarily notice my brother noticing or caring if he, in fact, does. But no one takes him seriously. Our family, his close friends... none of us get to the point of being disappointed because none of us actually believes he is going to do everything he says he's going to do in the first place. I have no idea what people new to him must think...but no, we all have a 'right, sure thing...we'll believe it when we see it' type attitude. This stems from the fact that he presents every single idea, from the outrageous to the reasonable, as if it's totally within his power to accomplish it. I don't know what he actually believes in his mind...I actually don't want to know it's so weird to me this behavior...but that's what he does and why people don't take him seriously. Every single idea is presented as if...at some point in his life...he's going to make it happen. Do you think you do some of this to a certain extent?

    The way I handle this...is by making a distinction between what ideas I'm just tossing around in my mind just for the fun of it...and what ideas I actually think I might try to make a reality. Because I don't want to look batshit crazy like my brother haha.

  3. #3
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    It sounds like a rational process to me, and I don't know that I've ever heard of a person being judged for it. As long as you're able to periodically put aside the brainstorming, focus in on a few of your best ideas and bring them to success, I don't see why you would be criticized.

    I get what you mean, though. My best friend is an ENTP and as well-respected as she is, the Ne dominance can make her seem overly imaginative, dabbling in everything without much intention to actualize her ideas. I don't think she cares. It's the way she operates; there's no point in tailoring her persona when her creative process is sparked most by these verbal brainstorming sessions. She gets shit done and everyone knows it, so it's not a problem.

    on the other hand, I know another ENTP (probably e7 too) who's pretty reckless and underachieving. I think he enjoys the process of coming up with ideas and sharing them much more than their application. But he's somewhat immature, and I would doubt that you're perceived the same way, or at least to the same extent.

    If it's evident that you're being judged for it -- and it bothers you enough -- then maybe limit these rambles to people you know respect you?

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    Ne isn't a rational process. Neither is Ni, Si, or Se.

    Perception isn't rational. It's irrational, it's simply how you see things.

    You go Ne first, feel compelled to discuss those ideas with others, then filter them down with Ti or Fe judgment.

    You're probably judged mostly by people who feel like "less talk, more action."

    Can't do anything about that, everybody values different functions.


  5. #5
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    Yeahhhh I think I accidentally get others really excited about some tangential nascent idea I had and then burst their enthusiasm bubble when I go on to list all the reasons I don't actually want to do it.

    They seem to get frustrated that I don't try to do all these things. But, I has priorities.

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    Senior Member Scheherezade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Ne isn't a rational process. Neither is Ni, Si, or Se.

    Perception isn't rational. It's irrational, it's simply how you see things.

    You go Ne first, feel compelled to discuss those ideas with others, then filter them down with Ti or Fe judgment.

    You're probably judged mostly by people who feel like "less talk, more action."

    Can't do anything about that, everybody values different functions.

    Judged by NTs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherezade View Post
    Judged by NTs?
    Less talk more action would probably pertain mostly to TJs (especially ExTJs) and probably STPs.

    I don't think all NTs are "less talk more action." INTPs and ENTPs will both talk (or write) a blue streak, and though INTJs are more purposeful, I do think they prefer the world of ideas and individual ethics as well, being introverts and Ni doms with tertiary Fi.

  8. #8
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    More action you can always have:

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #9
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I think it's an advantage that most of the brainstorming is just a mental exercise. If you tried to actually do everything that pops into the head of an Ne person, you'd be running around like a hamster on meth. You get all the cool ideas to play with, with very little energy exertion, which is the best of all possible worlds to me. One or two ideas in action at any one time, is plenty, IMO.

    Maybe the problem is that the other person doesn't realize that it's just brainstorming? I dunno.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Maybe the problem is that the other person doesn't realize that it's just brainstorming? I dunno.
    i've done that (as ridiculous as the idea of declaring or even presuming in advance the purpose of a conversation seems to me, god help me, i've tried that several times)... it still creates a sense of expectation, especially if others get excited over the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yeahhhh I think I accidentally get others really excited about some tangential nascent idea I had and then burst their enthusiasm bubble when I go on to list all the reasons I don't actually want to do it.

    They seem to get frustrated that I don't try to do all these things. But, I has priorities.
    well.. since they have legal personhood.. what kind of karma would let me reincarnate as a corporation?

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