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  1. #91
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    In which case, women with asbergers are pretty much just like a lot of other people, not a lot to discuss here.... i went online and found endless descriptions of Aspie women and guess what? I fit every single one of them. Yet have no real difficulties in getting about in society, living my life or otherwise functioning. So if I were an Aspie then I'd have to conclude that its no more difficult than being say blonde or brunette so why exactly do they need self-help groups, special education and lessons in social functioning? This world has gone crazy on the 'I'm a special little snowflake' theme, with people just lining up to be diagnosed with this and that just so they can claim their specialness. Humans are so narrow in their thinking that they label anyone with a slightly different set of priorities in life dysfunctional and then set about correcting that dysfunction with medication and counsellors willing to help you develop coping mechanisms. The next leap of choosing eye or hair colour as a dysfunction is really not very far away at the rate we are going.

    I'm with the other poster who said it isn't a syndrome or dysfunction, its simply a point of difference in what should naturally be a really diverse species.
    I don't really think it's a "disorder" or illness or something either, but it's a real condition which causes people difficulty; you just don't have whatever they have. And people who have difficulty doing things find it helpful to discuss their experiences with other people.

  2. #92
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    If you have no difficulties getting about in society, living your life, or otherwise functioning, and would not have benefited from self-help groups, special education, or lessons in social functioning, then it's highly unlikely you have what they have. But many people with Asperger's and autism agree with you that it should be considered a variation of humanity rather than something to be feared or eradicated- the movement is called "neurodiversity." Being diagnosed with autism or Asperger's or being a part of the system that helps those who are, does not mean believing the condition should be feared or eradicated. It's just a fact that society is not set up to accommodate neurodiversity, though. Awareness through labeling is one way people are attempting to change that.

    (Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, so if this has already been said, my bad.)

  3. #93
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I'm not dxed aspie or austistic, ie i'm not. But I do have troubles getting into society and social functioning, I was in special ed classes ect. and looking at me and talking to me, you think i'm you're average human just a little eccentrit but the point being that just because some one is high functioning of whatever they're dxed with doesn't mean that things that comes to neurotypical people comes easy to them. And I know I'm off, but I don't like when people down play things and think oh well if he/she does xyz than or why can't he/she just. it's not that simple. I don't think people with asperger's or autism are defective, I do agree that they just look at the world differently, and so do i, that's probably why i often relate to them better than the normies.

    p.s. I'm relating it too myself, cuz i can't relate it to others.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #94
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    If you have no difficulties getting about in society, living your life, or otherwise functioning, and would not have benefited from self-help groups, special education, or lessons in social functioning, then it's highly unlikely you have what they have. But many people with Asperger's and autism agree with you that it should be considered a variation of humanity rather than something to be feared or eradicated- the movement is called "neurodiversity." Being diagnosed with autism or Asperger's or being a part of the system that helps those who are, does not mean believing the condition should be feared or eradicated. It's just a fact that society is not set up to accommodate neurodiversity, though. Awareness through labeling is one way people are attempting to change that.
    Society was not set up to accommodate left-handed folks, either. Just consider the number of appliances, gadgets, even auditorium seating that assume right-handedness. Do the (granted, comparatively minor) problems lefties experience make left-handedness a disorder, or simply a normal if minority variation? At one time, parents and teachers tried to retrain lefties to use their right hand. Our attitude has shifted over time. Perhaps it will with autism/asbergers as well.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #95
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Maybe so- I'm not averse to that. But as things are now, kids with diagnoses have access to accommodations/help that kids without diagnoses don't have access to. And those accommodations can mean the difference between success and failure for a child who struggles in the current system.

    A family I have worked for in the past (I was their nanny for many years) has a daughter who is extremely intelligent and almost surely has Asperger's/autism, as it is currently defined. She struggled needlessly in school with the same kind of stuff that my son has gotten help with. She could have benefitted from the same help.

  6. #96
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I've read a bunch of stuff on women with aspergers. The only thing that ever confuses me is that they will claim that they are especially emotionally sensitive (to how they are being treated) but at the same time claim that they are not emotionally sensitive to others. How can you be both?
    There are a couple of ways this could be interpreted. A person can be emotionally sensitive to self, but not others. A person can also be sensitive to authentic emotions in self and others, but be oblivious to social norms, artifice, and rituals of social expectations.

    I related to a chunk of the info in the OP, but I don't think anyone I know would think I have Aspbergers. My inter- and intra-personal ways of relating are different from the norm, though. I have always founds social norms confusing, even when I can observe and describe them. The pressure associated with these creates a lot of stress in me, and I do cope by being very polite and responsible, so that I don't stand out. I am a lot more unusual than most people realize irl because I have some ways to cope and cover up what is different about the way I think and socialize.

    I deal with several people with high functioning autism and Aspbergers and what makes me different from it is that I don't have sensory rigidity that most people with these issues demonstrate. What I do have are certain kinds of emotional hypersensitivity combined with obliviousness that I related to in the OP. My sensory relationship tends to be very fluid and flexible combined with a lack of awareness, except for sound. Sensory overstimulation does exhaust me, so I can feel sympathy in that regard.

    In the emotional realm, I can relate to these issues because a lack of consistency can be quite upsetting, but I don't care nearly as much if sensory experiences change. I do have an unusual level of sensitivity to time and routine, although too much routine makes me feel oppressed. I can estimate time down to the actual minute in several instances. So in some ways I relate, but in others I can feel opposite to the descriptions in the OP and also of what I know about these issues.

    I can also feel a rather intense empathy in one-on-one situation and so I could also internalize aspects of this because I spend a lot of hours with people who struggle with these issues. There is something different about my socialization based on either experience or my brain because I did not form friendships in the way most other people I observed did during their childhood and adolescence. I struggled terribly to relate to the "norm", so in some ways I feel like some sort of term to justify everything I went through might feel good, just because it would be an "explanation". Although there may be no such thing available. It's probably just individual issues.

    To give a concrete example: When I was in my early teens and Madonna come out with "Material Girl", I was deeply into astronomy at the time and thought she was singing about a materialistic philosophy of reality, and I thought the song was interesting because of it. I thought she just meant that she was made of matter. I couldn't imagine it was about shopping. Just imagine how a junior high school girl like that might fit in with other junior high school girls. I also brought my astronomy books and rode my friend's bus home because I heard she liked astronomy, but she just sat in the seat behind me and giggled with her friend about boys the whole ride, so I was pretty sad. I think "nerdgirl" is a more accurate term for me at that point.

    I also got really overwhelmed trying to teach a group of students because there were too many signals, so I adjusted my career to teach individually, and I also have gravitated towards special needs students because they are easier for me to understand than the "norm". Each person requires that I observe and reconstruct their communication and cognitive processing from the ground up instead of basing everything on shared assumptions. I am far more skilled at understanding a new system, than applying shared assumptions.

    I teach a woman who has brain injury and Aspbergers, and she is highly conflict oriented and constantly fights in her life. She insults me at lessons on a regular basis, and this typically creates a build-up of tension with most people she interacts with which ends in a huge blow-up. She cannot maintain a relationship of any sort for very long. Because I can calibrate to unique inner systems of processing and communicating, I have been able to work with her for a few years, and I don't feel tension building up because I interact with her uniquely. This is actually an example of how I function outside the norm because most normal people cannot sustain interaction with her, but I feel pretty relaxed about it. I'm not sure what that means, and it probably has nothing to do with this topic, but it's late, and I guess I'm rambling a bit.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #97
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    @fia: Interesting stuff, and thanks for sharing. Somewhat unrelated, but I think your interacting uniquely with people probably comes from Ni+Fe- I have a sneaking suspicion Ni is much more oriented to individual systems and Ne wants to find commonalities among systems- hence Ne+Ti wants to find principles and apply generalities. I know that's the way I operate; I practically can't analyze something at all without connecting the ideas I get to other ideas and other systems.

    What do you mean by sensory rigidity?

  8. #98
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    @fia: Interesting stuff, and thanks for sharing. Somewhat unrelated, but I think your interacting uniquely with people probably comes from Ni+Fe- I have a sneaking suspicion Ni is much more oriented to individual systems and Ne wants to find commonalities among systems- hence Ne+Ti wants to find principles and apply generalities. I know that's the way I operate; I practically can't analyze something at all without connecting the ideas I get to other ideas and other systems.

    What do you mean by sensory rigidity?
    The autism spectrum including Aspbergers has tremendous variety amongst individuals, but there is typically a hypersensitivity to sensory data and a resistance to changing anything in their environment. I will also give examples of the need for regular in the way time is ordered. This second aspect could be described as ritual, procedural. I'll give various examples:

    The need to eat only prime numbers of beans
    Becoming upset when a clock is changed in a room
    Having a meltdown if a lesson goes one minute over its allotted time
    Resisting putting in AC window units even when it gets really hot primarily because it involves change
    Covering the ears and having a potential meltdown when hearing the sound of a piano
    Requiring that the lights be kept dim
    Needing to play every single song in their piano book at every lesson or else becoming agitated
    Having an emotional meltdown when an appointment is cancelled
    Needing to say the exact same phrases during the exact same time of day or during the same phase of a lesson


    There is also a tendency for sensory data to map more completely and accurately on first experience. This could be described in some as a photographic memory, but there can be varying degrees of it. After this initial imprinting it can be difficult to alter the information. This is also related to why it is upsetting for change to occur in the outside world. I have noticed in some individuals a tendency to fixate on concrete details while being oblivious to other, sometimes more important details. Driving can be extremely stressful and difficult because of its unpredictability. I knew one for whom filling out forms created so much stress that it was avoided at great financial cost. I teach students with varying degrees of autism and have found that they require seeing a task modeled accurately right at first. If they start off doing it wrong, it is extremely difficult to change it, but if they see it correctly the first time, they will internalize that much more quickly than other students.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #99
    Junior Member ummm's Avatar
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    l'd agree that the disorder can't be typed accurately.

    That doesn't mean someone with it can't be typed, but they can type themselves without trying to type autism.

    For example, in an INP type, those routines can be a way for the person to cope with the way they take in information. They aren't present for the same reasons they may be present in an ISTJ.

    l'm not really making a related point here lol, l'm just trying to say that autism is a separate thing from any type. As NTs we aren't...''sort of autistic'' in the way l see it so casually implied on the interwebs.

  10. #100
    Junior Member ummm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Imo aspergers isnt over presented in INTPs, i dont think you can even fit people with aspergers to MBTI type.

    If you look at traits of people with aspergers usually have, they are extremely organized, need routines etc, which are J traits. Also they tend to be extremely sensitive to sensory stimulation, which hints at S. They also tend to live much in their own heads, which is a sign of introversion. On top of that, all cases which i have seen, read or watched videos of seem more like ISTJ, but heavily malfunctioning, so much that i really dont think you can even call them ISTJs, but are more like Si Ni Fi Te. The thing with aspergers is that they have few areas of the brains that have really strong connections to some other particular area and high activity on those, but have really weak connections and activity in most of the brains. This is why you cant really put functions in normal way and cant really make MBTI type out of them.

    We have this middle aged woman with aspergers in this job i started last week and she seems most like an ESTJ with poorly developed Te. While being quite outgoing and talkative, she does these weird things like the other day we were taking a coffee break and she sat next to me and some other people were having a conversation on other table, she responded to what those other people said and was like part of the conversation, but to me it was clear that those other people didnt even notice her talking and she didnt seem to understand it, because it lasted for like 5 minutes
    This is what l was getting at.

    A person with behaviors that, when translated to MBTI become opposing perceiving functions that wouldn't fit in with the system.

    l daresay that l think some autistic people are so highly N that they develop a coping method that resembles S, Si...or display what looks like Se as a result of their own inferior use of it.

    But the point is that in typology these behaviors are seen for what they are literally and typed as functions. lf said person, perhaps an Ni dominant developed those behaviors, the Si traits would be seen first.

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