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[INTP] Paradox of a young INTP

SolitaryWalker

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I am 21 years old, intensely focused on ideas. Spend most of my time, even when involved with the external world.

Have published a book, working on another one, eager to learn more and delve head on into the inner life.

Yet this attitude stands in sharp contrast with the idea of exploring life and living it to the fullest. As the intellectual path obviously insists on detaching yourself from the external world to analyze it, relating to the world in an almost wholly vicarious fashion, yet going out to experience it is visceral.

The 'youthful vigor' certainly gives me the extra energy to pursue intellectual endeavors, but I am far from pretending that this is all that my energy is channeled into, no matter how much I at times may wish it were so.

Thoughts on this matter, everyone? Especially the younger INTPs?
 

Snowey1210

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I can understand your situation somewhat, as at times I thought I was an INTP however I reassessed my self and decided an ENTP was a more fitting description. Whilst for me personally I can see the merits of having an intellectual engagement in various ideas and concepts, I still see the need to engage within the reality outside of a textbook. I guess that at least from my perspective, theory without some sort of external application or observation simply becomes heresay and that is my justification for choosing to live in this external manner.

The key to it all is to somehow balance these two elements of life. I understand that everyone has different preferences and you're saying that you have a preference for the intellectual internalised world, but I can tell you that there is no harm in dipping your toe into externalised pool once and a while, if just for confirmation of your ideas. To hypothesize without partaking always has an element of disconnection. Our ideas are formed from our experiences within the context of reality(nowhere else, they can lead us elsewhere though!) so why not embrace them?

BTW, I've got to say I'm impressed that you have published a book by the age of 21! If this is not living life to the fullest I don't know what is!
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
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What? I thought Blue was Spinoza!

My mistake. Carry on. Blue, if it's really so much of a problem, get into some debauchery and see if you like it. The best sort of hooligans are the ones who innocently go back to their studies after a long night of partying.
 

Magic Poriferan

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I'm a nineteen year old INTP, and I often take objection to the definition people give for "living life to its fullest".

My impression has been that ones own cognizance is the defining factor of being alive. Everything moves around, is technically subject to experiences, but everything is not necessarily alive. So it is mental awareness and comprehension that makes a human live. As such, I've always put top priority on my internal thought processes. I think, for instance, someone who thinks more of less experiences is actually living life more than someone who thinks less of more experiences.

Now we could argue that the person who both seeks many experiences and fully subjects them to the rigors of thought is the most alive of all, but some caution has to be added to even this. One experience many people seek is drug use, but this is actually detrimental to cognitive power I'd say. Becoming extremely intoxicated blunts the mind, and so, I think in cases like these, seeking the experience itself is a detraction from mental awareness.

So what experiences do you seek? I personally take lessons from experiences, but I don't seek them as much as most people. I only need conceptual understanding of things to be satisfied. Sometimes it greatly aggravates or perplexes my acquaintances.

I good example of this is my relationship with video-games. I've spent more time watching people play video-games, or reading descriptions of them, than I have actually spent playing them. For me, once I have absorbed the concepts of the game, playing it loses a great deal of the attraction. Further more, I am someone that hacks and mods computer games, but even this has hang-ups. I may develop an idea for a modification for a game, at which point I must do a lot of thinking to complete the conceptual design and to determine of it is possible to do. The problem is, once I figure that out, I often lose all of my motivation to turn my mod concept into a tangible thing.

I do not regret this tendency of mine for my own sake. I feel perfectly content with my non-experiential, highly internal approach. The one thing that does bother me is that I feel like I don't contribute. I am so un-inclined to actualize something from my mind that I give nothing to the world, and there is a sense of failure associated with this for me. This feels worst for me when I love someone, because I realize that I'm so internalized that it inhibits my ability to give anything to the person I love.

That's how I feel, but I am not entirely clear on what your worries are.
Are you more concerned with whether or not you are impacting the world enough, or are you more concerned with whether or not you are perceiving the world enough?
 

the_STRATOSPHERE

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Apr 24, 2008
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24 year old INTP here.

So...what is the paradox exactly? Is it; you must be detached from the word to analyze it, yet to analyze things you need to be acquainted with them, and to be acquainted with them you must experience them directly, contradicting the method of detachment?

Also, what does being young have to do with a paradox in this case? If you have more energy, it can be spent in various endeavors simultaneously, no? Now if those endeavors contradict, then you have a problem....
 

BrianBear

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Turn off your brain every once in a while and enjoy life for what it is.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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I am 21 years old, intensely focused on ideas. Spend most of my time, even when involved with the external world.

Have published a book, working on another one, eager to learn more and delve head on into the inner life.

Yet this attitude stands in sharp contrast with the idea of exploring life and living it to the fullest. As the intellectual path obviously insists on detaching yourself from the external world to analyze it, relating to the world in an almost wholly vicarious fashion, yet going out to experience it is visceral.

The 'youthful vigor' certainly gives me the extra energy to pursue intellectual endeavors, but I am far from pretending that this is all that my energy is channeled into, no matter how much I at times may wish it were so.

Thoughts on this matter, everyone? Especially the younger INTPs?

I think you first need to sort out your goals or see how they work together. Is your goal intellectual insight? Living life to the fullest? Peace of mind? Self-intimacy?

After that, you need to decide how to go about achieving that. As I see things, I think they all converge on the same thing, which is getting to know things without disturbing them, and trying to fit everything into some category (as you do with MBTI) is one way things are disturbed. It's very insidious and subtle. You probably disagree, but I'm not sure you've really stepped out of your mind to challenge your notions about knowledge and insight; I'd bet that most of your ideas feed off other prior ideas. What I'm saying is try putting all those ideas down for a while.

One of those ideas that you hold that interferes with things, I think, is how you perceive emotions and feelings as inferior. They may not be the best tool for understanding certain things, but you push so hard against them that it seems as though you neglect them, and that, imo, is not beneficial. It reminds me of how some atheists can't stop talking about atheism and bashing god because they've had such a bad experience with it. They cling to a cold, mechanical view of the world and prevent themselves from wondering and seeing beauty in things, which is a shame. (And I used to be like this, both with regard to feelings and god.)
 

Orangey

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One of those ideas that you hold that interferes with things, I think, is how you perceive emotions and feelings as inferior. They may not be the best tool for understanding certain things, but you push so hard against them that it seems as though you neglect them, and that, imo, is not beneficial. It reminds me of how some atheists can't stop talking about atheism and bashing god because they've had such a bad experience with it. They cling to a cold, mechanical view of the world and prevent themselves from wondering and seeing beauty in things, which is a shame. (And I used to be like this, both with regard to feelings and god.)

How does not believing in God stop one from seeing the beauty and wonder in things?
 

Xander

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What's to observe if you don't DO anything?
There again what's the point of enjoying observation if you don't stop to look?

Do a few things you enjoy, pick your battles carefully and every once in a while keep them guessing by just saying "Okay let's give it a whirl".

Admittedly it took my school chum getting married to get me to try deserts, gambling, flying and extreme heights but hell I enjoyed it and guess what... I'm not actually sensitive to heat.. more humidity. Now I wouldn't have guessed that with my obsession with keeping myself at less than 20 degrees c.

Anyhow, having been there and having observed how others live I have greater appreciation for my usual crowd and a better sense of comparison for my observations. After all what is light without darkness? It's one thing to observe darkness from a well lit area but quite another to be in the darkness observing the light.

So yeah balance is good but that's not to say 50/50 or anything of the sort. Your balance will be personal to you.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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How does not believing in God stop one from seeing the beauty and wonder in things?

Logically, it doesn't, but when people get force-fed theistic dogma, they can polarize and get forced into an ideology where the entire world is explainable and devoid of contemplative mystery.
 

Orangey

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Logically, it doesn't, but when people get force-fed theistic dogma, they can polarize and get forced into an ideology where the entire world is explainable and devoid of contemplative mystery.

True. And that's quite as irrational as any religious dogma.
 

entropie

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Hi there,

I do not think that one can not live his life to the fullest potential. One can only think or feel that the way of living can take a different course.

What I am trying to say:

There was that weirdo american physics professor Richard Feynman. He saied that his best friend critizesed him for taking things appart and so destroying it's reality. His friend saied, when you as a physics professor look at a rose, you see what it is made off and how those things correlate, interract and form the system that sustaines the roses beauty. But you can not just look and enjoy the beauty.

Dr. Feynman said that he firstly sees the beauty of the rose. And then goes deeper down the road and sees for example the little structure of the leaves that keeps the rose alive. Then he sees those chemical reactions of chlorophyll and ye my knwoledge in biology is limited... In the end he sees the beauty of a complex atomic structure that has formed, somehow, evidently genius through time. He sees that the color of the rose attracts bees that pollinate the rose and grow more roses. So obviously bees can see colors too and so a first interconnection is drawn. I do not have to explain, you do understand ( I hope, just to lazy to look up all that bilogical english words ) :).


So, if you ask yourself, if you have to expand your point of view, you will get on the wrong track. Your view is expanded already. If you now change your view, you will be going down a different road, far away from the roses or maybe closer to them, but different in its course. You eventually will change and be influenced by what you want you to be.

So, I think you already know what I am about to say. For me as an ENTP it is not difficult to "show 5 fingers to the barkeeper", what is an german expression for relaxation. I can feel and see the rose and ignore its purpose, my problem mainly would be that this would become boring after a minute at most :).

You as an INTP can do the same things as I can do, surely even more. You just have to shift one gear back sometimes, so that you remember the rose, what is, what you all started with.

*this message is copyrighted with the cryptic certificate 2008* :party2:
 

sriv

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I thought it was Spinoza himself who taught his disciples to have intellectual love for God or "Everything". You are definitely passionate, but not necessarily loving.
 

entropie

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And ? To be loved can mean that you care . To be not loved can mean that you can care.
 

Risen

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Hi there,

I do not think that one can not live his life to the fullest potential. One can only think or feel that the way of living can take a different course.

What I am trying to say:

There was that weirdo american physics professor Richard Feynman. He saied that his best friend critizesed him for taking things appart and so destroying it's reality. His friend saied, when you as a physics professor look at a rose, you see what it is made off and how those things correlate, interract and form the system that sustaines the roses beauty. But you can not just look and enjoy the beauty.

Dr. Feynman said that he firstly sees the beauty of the rose. And then goes deeper down the road and sees for example the little structure of the leaves that keeps the rose alive. Then he sees those chemical reactions of chlorophyll and ye my knwoledge in biology is limited... In the end he sees the beauty of a complex atomic structure that has formed, somehow, evidently genius through time. He sees that the color of the rose attracts bees that pollinate the rose and grow more roses. So obviously bees can see colors too and so a first interconnection is drawn. I do not have to explain, you do understand ( I hope, just to lazy to look up all that bilogical english words ) :).


So, if you ask yourself, if you have to expand your point of view, you will get on the wrong track. Your view is expanded already. If you now change your view, you will be going down a different road, far away from the roses or maybe closer to them, but different in its course. You eventually will change and be influenced by what you want you to be.

So, I think you already know what I am about to say. For me as an ENTP it is not difficult to "show 5 fingers to the barkeeper", what is an german expression for relaxation. I can feel and see the rose and ignore its purpose, my problem mainly would be that this would become boring after a minute at most :).

You as an INTP can do the same things as I can do, surely even more. You just have to shift one gear back sometimes, so that you remember the rose, what is, what you all started with.

*this message is copyrighted with the cryptic certificate 2008* :party2:

Hmm, reminds me of the spotlight and floodlight perspective analogy built by one philosopher. Basically, that there are people with a spotlight perspective who see small parts of a picture in great detail, and those with floodlights who see a much larger picture in lesser detail. Neither is better, they're just different and serve different purposes. To be able to see things from either perspective is perhaps the mark of mark well balanced person. People have done great things by delving far into either perspective though.

It also makes me think of the concept of God as some see it. If God is defined as the sum of all things, then most seem to follow the floodlight perspective, the belief that they need to be able to see all things to conceptualize God. But what of the spotlight perspective? If that perspective only allows one to focus on the most minute parts of God, then most would say surely it does not allow one to comprehend the wonder of God. However, I believe that to be false. Theoretically, there may be a base, totipotent and omnipotent form of energy that makes all things physical and beyond physical possible. If one is able to look at the rose, and then its cells, chemical makeup, atomic structure, subatomic structure, etc. etc., until we get down to that most basic primal form of energy that gives birth to all things, then could we not say that we have seen God? If we are able to see that which is the foundation for all things in existence, then is that not God as well? So perhaps both perspectives can really lead us to the same destination, which would be natural in a reality where all things are truly connected.

I hope I've made the point concise enough for those who are and aren't religious/spiritual.
 

redacted

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Nov 28, 2007
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4,223
I am 21 years old, intensely focused on ideas. Spend most of my time, even when involved with the external world.

Have published a book, working on another one, eager to learn more and delve head on into the inner life.

Yet this attitude stands in sharp contrast with the idea of exploring life and living it to the fullest. As the intellectual path obviously insists on detaching yourself from the external world to analyze it, relating to the world in an almost wholly vicarious fashion, yet going out to experience it is visceral.

The 'youthful vigor' certainly gives me the extra energy to pursue intellectual endeavors, but I am far from pretending that this is all that my energy is channeled into, no matter how much I at times may wish it were so.

Thoughts on this matter, everyone? Especially the younger INTPs?

i'd say detaching and analyzing will probably remain a constant in your life. the only advice i'd give (that i'm sure you've thought of already) would be to work on factoring in emotion and value more in your thinking. your thinking is sound, but you reject (even consciously) a large aspect of reality.
 

SolitaryWalker

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I thought it was Spinoza himself who taught his disciples to have intellectual love for God or "Everything". You are definitely passionate, but not necessarily loving.

Spinoza taught to come to terms with all things in the world by understanding them intellectually. Not emotionally. You come to peace with everything as you've come to know all that is for its pure essence, you cannot be disappointed anymore. I doubt that we will come to know all things, but the closer we do, the more at peace we shall be. It is worth the endeavor to attempt to come as close as possible.
 

Night

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Do you think it is possible to find peace in disappointment, BlueWing?
 

SolitaryWalker

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Do you think it is possible to find peace in disappointment, BlueWing?

Possible, but not desirable. As such peace will be more difficult to sustain because our nature longs to avoid disappointment.
 

Uytuun

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There is a sense of closure in disappointment that is not unattractive.
 
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