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  1. #11
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Logically, it doesn't, but when people get force-fed theistic dogma, they can polarize and get forced into an ideology where the entire world is explainable and devoid of contemplative mystery.
    True. And that's quite as irrational as any religious dogma.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #12
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Hi there,

    I do not think that one can not live his life to the fullest potential. One can only think or feel that the way of living can take a different course.

    What I am trying to say:

    There was that weirdo american physics professor Richard Feynman. He saied that his best friend critizesed him for taking things appart and so destroying it's reality. His friend saied, when you as a physics professor look at a rose, you see what it is made off and how those things correlate, interract and form the system that sustaines the roses beauty. But you can not just look and enjoy the beauty.

    Dr. Feynman said that he firstly sees the beauty of the rose. And then goes deeper down the road and sees for example the little structure of the leaves that keeps the rose alive. Then he sees those chemical reactions of chlorophyll and ye my knwoledge in biology is limited... In the end he sees the beauty of a complex atomic structure that has formed, somehow, evidently genius through time. He sees that the color of the rose attracts bees that pollinate the rose and grow more roses. So obviously bees can see colors too and so a first interconnection is drawn. I do not have to explain, you do understand ( I hope, just to lazy to look up all that bilogical english words ) .


    So, if you ask yourself, if you have to expand your point of view, you will get on the wrong track. Your view is expanded already. If you now change your view, you will be going down a different road, far away from the roses or maybe closer to them, but different in its course. You eventually will change and be influenced by what you want you to be.

    So, I think you already know what I am about to say. For me as an ENTP it is not difficult to "show 5 fingers to the barkeeper", what is an german expression for relaxation. I can feel and see the rose and ignore its purpose, my problem mainly would be that this would become boring after a minute at most .

    You as an INTP can do the same things as I can do, surely even more. You just have to shift one gear back sometimes, so that you remember the rose, what is, what you all started with.

    *this message is copyrighted with the cryptic certificate 2008*
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #13
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    I thought it was Spinoza himself who taught his disciples to have intellectual love for God or "Everything". You are definitely passionate, but not necessarily loving.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  4. #14
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    And ? To be loved can mean that you care . To be not loved can mean that you can care.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Hi there,

    I do not think that one can not live his life to the fullest potential. One can only think or feel that the way of living can take a different course.

    What I am trying to say:

    There was that weirdo american physics professor Richard Feynman. He saied that his best friend critizesed him for taking things appart and so destroying it's reality. His friend saied, when you as a physics professor look at a rose, you see what it is made off and how those things correlate, interract and form the system that sustaines the roses beauty. But you can not just look and enjoy the beauty.

    Dr. Feynman said that he firstly sees the beauty of the rose. And then goes deeper down the road and sees for example the little structure of the leaves that keeps the rose alive. Then he sees those chemical reactions of chlorophyll and ye my knwoledge in biology is limited... In the end he sees the beauty of a complex atomic structure that has formed, somehow, evidently genius through time. He sees that the color of the rose attracts bees that pollinate the rose and grow more roses. So obviously bees can see colors too and so a first interconnection is drawn. I do not have to explain, you do understand ( I hope, just to lazy to look up all that bilogical english words ) .


    So, if you ask yourself, if you have to expand your point of view, you will get on the wrong track. Your view is expanded already. If you now change your view, you will be going down a different road, far away from the roses or maybe closer to them, but different in its course. You eventually will change and be influenced by what you want you to be.

    So, I think you already know what I am about to say. For me as an ENTP it is not difficult to "show 5 fingers to the barkeeper", what is an german expression for relaxation. I can feel and see the rose and ignore its purpose, my problem mainly would be that this would become boring after a minute at most .

    You as an INTP can do the same things as I can do, surely even more. You just have to shift one gear back sometimes, so that you remember the rose, what is, what you all started with.

    *this message is copyrighted with the cryptic certificate 2008*
    Hmm, reminds me of the spotlight and floodlight perspective analogy built by one philosopher. Basically, that there are people with a spotlight perspective who see small parts of a picture in great detail, and those with floodlights who see a much larger picture in lesser detail. Neither is better, they're just different and serve different purposes. To be able to see things from either perspective is perhaps the mark of mark well balanced person. People have done great things by delving far into either perspective though.

    It also makes me think of the concept of God as some see it. If God is defined as the sum of all things, then most seem to follow the floodlight perspective, the belief that they need to be able to see all things to conceptualize God. But what of the spotlight perspective? If that perspective only allows one to focus on the most minute parts of God, then most would say surely it does not allow one to comprehend the wonder of God. However, I believe that to be false. Theoretically, there may be a base, totipotent and omnipotent form of energy that makes all things physical and beyond physical possible. If one is able to look at the rose, and then its cells, chemical makeup, atomic structure, subatomic structure, etc. etc., until we get down to that most basic primal form of energy that gives birth to all things, then could we not say that we have seen God? If we are able to see that which is the foundation for all things in existence, then is that not God as well? So perhaps both perspectives can really lead us to the same destination, which would be natural in a reality where all things are truly connected.

    I hope I've made the point concise enough for those who are and aren't religious/spiritual.

  6. #16
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I am 21 years old, intensely focused on ideas. Spend most of my time, even when involved with the external world.

    Have published a book, working on another one, eager to learn more and delve head on into the inner life.

    Yet this attitude stands in sharp contrast with the idea of exploring life and living it to the fullest. As the intellectual path obviously insists on detaching yourself from the external world to analyze it, relating to the world in an almost wholly vicarious fashion, yet going out to experience it is visceral.

    The 'youthful vigor' certainly gives me the extra energy to pursue intellectual endeavors, but I am far from pretending that this is all that my energy is channeled into, no matter how much I at times may wish it were so.

    Thoughts on this matter, everyone? Especially the younger INTPs?
    i'd say detaching and analyzing will probably remain a constant in your life. the only advice i'd give (that i'm sure you've thought of already) would be to work on factoring in emotion and value more in your thinking. your thinking is sound, but you reject (even consciously) a large aspect of reality.

  7. #17
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriv View Post
    I thought it was Spinoza himself who taught his disciples to have intellectual love for God or "Everything". You are definitely passionate, but not necessarily loving.
    Spinoza taught to come to terms with all things in the world by understanding them intellectually. Not emotionally. You come to peace with everything as you've come to know all that is for its pure essence, you cannot be disappointed anymore. I doubt that we will come to know all things, but the closer we do, the more at peace we shall be. It is worth the endeavor to attempt to come as close as possible.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  8. #18
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Do you think it is possible to find peace in disappointment, BlueWing?

  9. #19
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Do you think it is possible to find peace in disappointment, BlueWing?
    Possible, but not desirable. As such peace will be more difficult to sustain because our nature longs to avoid disappointment.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #20
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    There is a sense of closure in disappointment that is not unattractive.

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