[NT] Four temperaments within the NT temperament

[Garthur17]

okay so i'm bored. and this thing just came to mind. if you know about the other four temperaments theory, it actually matches the individual types of the NTs. though they're not fully (or even not at all) correlated with each other, it just somehow makes sense. lol..

ENTP - Sanguine
Bubbly
Social
Upbeat
Outgoing
Positive
Extroverted

ENTJ - Choleric
Proud
Forceful
Confident
Get things done
Makes things their business
Likes to be in charge

INTJ - Melancholic
Serious
Analytical
Critical
Needs things to be RIGHT
Prefers planning to spontaneous action
Deep and thoughtful
(most overall descriptions about melancholic doesn't really fit intjs fully well. but intjs fit the melancholic choleric blend though)

INTP - Phlegmatic
Meek
Inoffensive
Shy
Tends to show little emotion
'Easygoing' in normal situations...
Quiet

if you try it to the other mbti temperaments, it would make less sense. i think it matches the NTs the most.

estj - choleric
esfj - sanguine
istj - melancholic or phleg
isfj - phlegmatic but also fit melancholic well

estp - choleric or sanguine
esfp - sanguine
isfp - melancholic or phleg
istp - phlegmatic or mel

as with the NFs..not so much i think

enfj - choleric or sanguine
enfp - choleric or sanguine
infp - phlegmatic or melancholic
infj - melancholic or phlegmatic

yeah,just bored

 

[Such Irony]

This seems to match up well with my experience of the 4 NT types. Yeah, I think most people would generally perceive as phlegmatic.

It also seems to correlate well to interaction styles.

Choleric = In charge (ENTJ, ESTJ, ENFJ, ESTP)
Sanguine = Get things going (ENTP, ESFJ, ENFP, ESFP)
Melancholic = Chart the course (INTJ, ISTJ, INFJ, ISTP)
Phlegmatic = Behind the scenes (INTP, ISFJ, INFP, ISFP)

 

[Eric B]

Yest, the Interaction Styles are like a cross-mapping of the classic temperaments with the Keirsey temperaments, so that each type is a blend of two temperaments (four types are a blend of the same classic temperaments). (And Supine would go be an alternative for Phlegmatic).

 

[Ene]

okay so i'm bored. and this thing just came to mind. if you know about the other four temperaments theory, it actually matches the individual types of the NTs. though they're not fully (or even not at all) correlated with each other, it just somehow makes sense. lol..

ENTP - Sanguine
Bubbly
Social
Upbeat
Outgoing
Positive
Extroverted

ENTJ - Choleric
Proud
Forceful
Confident
Get things done
Makes things their business
Likes to be in charge

INTJ - Melancholic
Serious
Analytical
Critical
Needs things to be RIGHT
Prefers planning to spontaneous action
Deep and thoughtful
(most overall descriptions about melancholic doesn't really fit intjs fully well. but intjs fit the melancholic choleric blend though)

INTP - Phlegmatic
Meek
Inoffensive
Shy
Tends to show little emotion
'Easygoing' in normal situations...
Quiet

if you try it to the other mbti temperaments, it would make less sense. i think it matches the NTs the most.

estj - choleric
esfj - sanguine
istj - melancholic or phleg
isfj - phlegmatic but also fit melancholic well

estp - choleric or sanguine
esfp - sanguine
isfp - melancholic or phleg
istp - phlegmatic or mel

as with the NFs..not so much i think

enfj - choleric or sanguine
enfp - choleric or sanguine
infp - phlegmatic or melancholic
infj - melancholic or phlegmatic

yeah,just bored

This seems to match up well with my experience of the 4 NT types. Yeah, I think most people would generally perceive as phlegmatic.

It also seems to correlate well to interaction styles.

Choleric = In charge (ENTJ, ESTJ, ENFJ, ESTP)
Sanguine = Get things going (ENTP, ESFJ, ENFP, ESFP)
Melancholic = Chart the course (INTJ, ISTJ, INFJ, ISTP)
Phlegmatic = Behind the scenes (INTP, ISFJ, INFP, ISFP)

Just want to chime in and say that I agree with you. I haven't read a lot on MBTI yet and am only just now beginning to discover socionics, but I've actually read several volumes on temperaments and I think you're pretty much right on the money with this. The thing about temperaments is that we all have aspects of all of them, but perfer to operate in one or two as our primary mode. The ultimate goal, of course, is to reach a near-balance. I was just today trying to decide where an ENFJ would fall in terms of temperament and kind of thought that maybe a Chol/Sang or Sang/Chol mixture would be it.

 

[Eric B]

According to the Interaction Styles—temperament theory, it would be Choleric Phlegmatic or Choleric Supine. Though I do see them coming out Sanguine. Those could be the Choleric Supines having the Supine picked up as Sanguine, since Supine is not recognized by most tests (It's similar to Sanguine in some ways, though is overall most like Phlegmatic).
Or, the quiz could simply pick up the dom. Fe sociability as "Sanguine" behavior.

 

[Garthur17]

dang. that crossing of interaction styles with keirsey temperaments make me an ENTJ. because i'm usually more of a directing person. and i'm also a choleric.. but i'm not ENTJ(at least i don't think so).

and enfj being a choleric not so sure... i thought them more of a sanguine also..or choleric sanguine. but choleric phlegmatic...well, sterotypically, chlorphlegs are supposed to be "apathetic" and "emotionless" .. and enfj is Fe dom, lol...so i think enfj are more on to the sanguine temperament.

 

[Eric B]

ENJ is "In Charge"; extraverted and directive; so both ENFJ and ENTJ would be Choleric.
If you're Choleric, but not ENTJ (which is the "double" Choleric), then do you have another temperament blended in? Did you arrive at Choleric from a quiz or something? If so; what was second in the list?

 

[Ene]

Me? I'm a melancholy-phlegmatic with a dash of the other two, just for good measure, but my sister is an ENFJ and appears very sanguine, but also, she can be hard and stubborn when she feels the need to be. So, I'm thinking maybe Supine or Sanguine would come first for her and Choleric would come second. When she was a kid, my called her Mary-Mary-Quite-Contrary, because she was very contrary.

 

[Garthur17]

ENJ is "In Charge"; extraverted and directive; so both ENFJ and ENTJ would be Choleric.
If you're Choleric, but not ENTJ (which is the "double" Choleric), then do you have another temperament blended in? Did you arrive at Choleric from a quiz or something? If so; what was second in the list?

i'm a choleric sanguine..
and i know more about this 4 temperaments theory than MBTI and the functions lol..

 

[Eric B]

Me? I'm a melancholy-phlegmatic with a dash of the other two, just for good measure, but my sister is an ENFJ and appears very sanguine, but also, she can be hard and stubborn when she feels the need to be. So, I'm thinking maybe Supine or Sanguine would come first for her and Choleric would come second. When she was a kid, my called her Mary-Mary-Quite-Contrary, because she was very contrary.

She sounds Choleric. They look like Sanguines at first glance, because of the common expressiveness (which of course, is the extroversion), but Sanguines don't usually stay "contrary" like that. At least not to the point where that would characterize the person enough to garner a nickname like that. That would indicate the "task-focus" (what's called "directing" in Interaction Styles) that separates Choleric from the people-focused Sanguine.
So if she's both Choleric and Supine, the Supine will temper the Choleric so that she wont be "hard, stubborn, contrary" all the time, for Supine is the total opposite. She'll go back and forth. Hence, with that stubbornness and hardness reduced by the Supine, yet still being expressive on the surface, she'll look like a Sanguine overall. (The same dynamic for Supine-Choleric INTP's like me. Same two temperaments, but reversed from the ENFJ, and being introverted upfront, we look like Melancholies).

i'm a choleric sanguine..
and i know more about this 4 temperaments theory than MBTI and the functions lol..

So would you happen to be ESTP, then? or maybe ENTP?

 

[Entropic]

Not sure how well it applies since I'm an MBTI INTP and definitely melancholic rather than phlegmatic. I actually kind of despise the phlegmatic temperament associated with INTPs because it's simply... lame. Also, most of all, I see a correlation between the temperaments and enneagram theory and I'll cross-map to MBTI if you just bear with me a little:

1 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
2 Average to healthy: Sanguine - Average to Unhealthy: Melancholic
3 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Phlegmatic
4 Average to healthy: Phlegmatic - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
5 Average to healthy: Melancholy - Average to unhealthy: Phlegmatic
7 Average to healthy: Sanguine - Average to unhealthy: Choleric
8 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
9 Average to healthy: Phlegmatic - Average to unhealthy: Choleric

So in general I think the trend here as we map this to the MBTI is that the temperaments stereotypes are more warped around enneatype stereotypes. We for example often see an overlap with the 7 description and ExxP types or the 5 description and INTx types. Which is why I am not fond the MBTI descriptions at all because they really just describe enneagram for most of the part than actually describing cognitive functions.

 

[Such Irony]

Not sure how well it applies since I'm an MBTI INTP and definitely melancholic rather than phlegmatic. I actually kind of despise the phlegmatic temperament associated with INTPs because it's simply... lame. Also, most of all, I see a correlation between the temperaments and enneagram theory and I'll cross-map to MBTI if you just bear with me a little:

1 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
2 Average to healthy: Sanguine - Average to Unhealthy: Melancholic
3 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Phlegmatic
4 Average to healthy: Phlegmatic - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
5 Average to healthy: Melancholy - Average to unhealthy: Phlegmatic
7 Average to healthy: Sanguine - Average to unhealthy: Choleric
8 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
9 Average to healthy: Phlegmatic - Average to unhealthy: Choleric

So in general I think the trend here as we map this to the MBTI is that the temperaments stereotypes are more warped around enneatype stereotypes. We for example often see an overlap with the 7 description and ExxP types or the 5 description and INTx types. Which is why I am not fond the MBTI descriptions at all because they really just describe enneagram for most of the part than actually describing cognitive functions.

What would you say type 6 is? Or do you think there is too much variation in that type to make a good guess?

 

[Entropic]

What would you say type 6 is? Or do you think there is too much variation in that type to make a good guess?

I think counterphobic is more choleric and phobic phlegmatic.

 

[Eric B]

Interesting idea!
Type 6 would be the Supine (and the less healthy 2 and 4, as well).
If you're not Phlegmatic, you could be Supine (which would be the Interaction Style only; INP). Since you're actually wearing an "x" in the T/F slot, then it seems you have or had some unclarity, and (as I discovered for myself, and have explained to SuchIrony and others) being Supine will make you seem like a Feeler in some respects. (4/5 wing combo's would also be compatible with this).

I could see why counterphobic would look Choleric, but that's how Supine in that mode is. They can look dominating, but (according to FIRO/MBTI theory), it's really apart of a dependency need (I don't know if Enneagram theory goes into that much).

I would also say Sanguine (not Phlegmatic) is the other side of 3 from Choleric. (3's seem to be very energetic, and the definition of a Phlegmatic is low energy).
I don't see how 9 could be Choleric, unless it involved it being next to 8 and 1 (same triad), and the types possibly being each other's wings.

 

[Entropic]

Interesting idea!
Type 6 would be the Supine (and the less healthy 2 and 4, as well).
If you're not Phlegmatic, you could be Supine (which would be the Interaction Style only; INP). Since you're actually wearing an "x" in the T/F slot, then it seems you have or had some unclarity, and (as I discovered for myself, and have explained to SuchIrony and others) being Supine will make you seem like a Feeler in some respects. (4/5 wing combo's would also be compatible with this).

I could see why counterphobic would look Choleric, but that's how Supine in that mode is. They can look dominating, but (according to FIRO/MBTI theory), it's really apart of a dependency need (I don't know if Enneagram theory goes into that much).

I would also say Sanguine (not Phlegmatic) is the other side of 3 from Choleric. (3's seem to be very energetic, and the definition of a Phlegmatic is low energy).
I don't see how 9 could be Choleric, unless it involved it being next to 8 and 1 (same triad), and the types possibly being each other's wings.

Actually, I'm not unclear on my type. I know my type, just that I am playfully using the system in such a way where you can interpret it two ways. Reading up quickly on supine. I can't say I relate. I still think I'm melancholic.

Also, I'll let you in on a hint: I seem like a thinker. That's why I score INTP on MBTI tests.

Addendum
Haha, I read a random online description of melancholic. It's pretty much a spot on description of the introverted types from the delta quadra. How fitting.

 

[Eric B]

OK. But just curious, do you identify with these at all:
http://www.temperaments.info/Temperament-Area-of-Inclusion/phlegmatic-inclusion.htm
http://www.temperaments.info/Temperament-Area-of-Control/choleric-control.htm
The way that system works, the temperaments are sorted into three areas (and those are two of them), and those two temperaments would blend and temper each other. (So you can't just look at either of them in isolation of the other). Put the two of them together, and the overall behavior would resemble a Melancholic (introverted, and yet with a critical edge).

There could be other explanations (including the third area: http://www.temperaments.info/Temperament-Area-of-Affection/melancholy-affection.htm), but that's my theory.

 

[Entropic]

OK. But just curious, do you identify with these at all:
http://www.temperaments.info/Temperament-Area-of-Inclusion/phlegmatic-inclusion.htm
http://www.temperaments.info/Temperament-Area-of-Control/choleric-control.htm
The way that system works, the temperaments are sorted into three areas (and those are two of them), and those two temperaments would blend and temper each other. (So you can't just look at either of them in isolation of the other). Put the two of them together, and the overall behavior would resemble a Melancholic (introverted, and yet with a critical edge).

There could be other explanations (including the third area: http://www.temperaments.info/Temperament-Area-of-Affection/melancholy-affection.htm), but that's my theory.

I took some random test and scored almost evenly on choleric yesterday. So if I follow your logic yes, then your conclusion would be valid as I do relate to both those choleric and phlegmatic descriptions ignoring how both temperaments appear in stand-alone descriptions. Why do you think all INxPs must be phlegmatic or similar by the way?

 

[Eric B]

INP is the "Behind the Scenes" Interaction Style, which Berens even implied mapped to the four temperaments, with BtS, as "introverted" and "informing" or "people-focused", fitting Phlegmatic. In the temperament system I linked to, the Supine is revealed as holding the introverted/people-focus place, while Phlegmatic is all around moderate (inbetween). Still, in translation back to a four temperament system, they both fit BtS; with one as being a more emotionally energized version of the other (Phlegmatic has low energy).
It really does seem to fit for most people.

 

[Derogatory]

A few years ago I used to be totally the Choleric, but now I have made observations, that I'm more likely to act like the Sanguine. Of course, I totally depends on the situation, but probably the main features of sanguine in me are:
1. I never shout.
2. I better use witty words and sarcasm than just directly and harshly criticize somebody.
3. Lately it's hard to make me seriously pissed off and nervous

 

[Eric B]

#1 and 3 are something Sanguines do a lot, because they are expressive. What differentiates them from the Choleric is that they bounce out of those negative moods quicker.

ENTP is likely both Sanguine and Choleric (ENP + NT). So perhaps you're just maturing and learning to control those emotions better. Or, since Sanguine would be the social temperament, and Choleric the leadership temperament, maybe it was circumstances before that pushed you more to the Choleric side. (I would call this "control issues", since that's the area of temperament I believe it corresponds to). Or perhaps tertiary Fe is pushing you more to the social side.