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  1. #11
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Not sure how well it applies since I'm an MBTI INTP and definitely melancholic rather than phlegmatic. I actually kind of despise the phlegmatic temperament associated with INTPs because it's simply... lame. Also, most of all, I see a correlation between the temperaments and enneagram theory and I'll cross-map to MBTI if you just bear with me a little:

    1 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
    2 Average to healthy: Sanguine - Average to Unhealthy: Melancholic
    3 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Phlegmatic
    4 Average to healthy: Phlegmatic - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
    5 Average to healthy: Melancholy - Average to unhealthy: Phlegmatic
    7 Average to healthy: Sanguine - Average to unhealthy: Choleric
    8 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
    9 Average to healthy: Phlegmatic - Average to unhealthy: Choleric

    So in general I think the trend here as we map this to the MBTI is that the temperaments stereotypes are more warped around enneatype stereotypes. We for example often see an overlap with the 7 description and ExxP types or the 5 description and INTx types. Which is why I am not fond the MBTI descriptions at all because they really just describe enneagram for most of the part than actually describing cognitive functions.

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  2. #12
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Not sure how well it applies since I'm an MBTI INTP and definitely melancholic rather than phlegmatic. I actually kind of despise the phlegmatic temperament associated with INTPs because it's simply... lame. Also, most of all, I see a correlation between the temperaments and enneagram theory and I'll cross-map to MBTI if you just bear with me a little:

    1 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
    2 Average to healthy: Sanguine - Average to Unhealthy: Melancholic
    3 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Phlegmatic
    4 Average to healthy: Phlegmatic - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
    5 Average to healthy: Melancholy - Average to unhealthy: Phlegmatic
    7 Average to healthy: Sanguine - Average to unhealthy: Choleric
    8 Average to healthy: Choleric - Average to unhealthy: Melancholic
    9 Average to healthy: Phlegmatic - Average to unhealthy: Choleric

    So in general I think the trend here as we map this to the MBTI is that the temperaments stereotypes are more warped around enneatype stereotypes. We for example often see an overlap with the 7 description and ExxP types or the 5 description and INTx types. Which is why I am not fond the MBTI descriptions at all because they really just describe enneagram for most of the part than actually describing cognitive functions.
    What would you say type 6 is? Or do you think there is too much variation in that type to make a good guess?
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    What would you say type 6 is? Or do you think there is too much variation in that type to make a good guess?
    I think counterphobic is more choleric and phobic phlegmatic.

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  4. #14
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Interesting idea!
    Type 6 would be the Supine (and the less healthy 2 and 4, as well).
    If you're not Phlegmatic, you could be Supine (which would be the Interaction Style only; INP). Since you're actually wearing an "x" in the T/F slot, then it seems you have or had some unclarity, and (as I discovered for myself, and have explained to SuchIrony and others) being Supine will make you seem like a Feeler in some respects. (4/5 wing combo's would also be compatible with this).

    I could see why counterphobic would look Choleric, but that's how Supine in that mode is. They can look dominating, but (according to FIRO/MBTI theory), it's really apart of a dependency need (I don't know if Enneagram theory goes into that much).

    I would also say Sanguine (not Phlegmatic) is the other side of 3 from Choleric. (3's seem to be very energetic, and the definition of a Phlegmatic is low energy).
    I don't see how 9 could be Choleric, unless it involved it being next to 8 and 1 (same triad), and the types possibly being each other's wings.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  5. #15
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Interesting idea!
    Type 6 would be the Supine (and the less healthy 2 and 4, as well).
    If you're not Phlegmatic, you could be Supine (which would be the Interaction Style only; INP). Since you're actually wearing an "x" in the T/F slot, then it seems you have or had some unclarity, and (as I discovered for myself, and have explained to SuchIrony and others) being Supine will make you seem like a Feeler in some respects. (4/5 wing combo's would also be compatible with this).

    I could see why counterphobic would look Choleric, but that's how Supine in that mode is. They can look dominating, but (according to FIRO/MBTI theory), it's really apart of a dependency need (I don't know if Enneagram theory goes into that much).

    I would also say Sanguine (not Phlegmatic) is the other side of 3 from Choleric. (3's seem to be very energetic, and the definition of a Phlegmatic is low energy).
    I don't see how 9 could be Choleric, unless it involved it being next to 8 and 1 (same triad), and the types possibly being each other's wings.
    Actually, I'm not unclear on my type. I know my type, just that I am playfully using the system in such a way where you can interpret it two ways. Reading up quickly on supine. I can't say I relate. I still think I'm melancholic.

    Also, I'll let you in on a hint: I seem like a thinker. That's why I score INTP on MBTI tests.

    Addendum
    Haha, I read a random online description of melancholic. It's pretty much a spot on description of the introverted types from the delta quadra. How fitting.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  6. #16
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    OK. But just curious, do you identify with these at all:
    http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...-inclusion.htm
    http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...ic-control.htm
    The way that system works, the temperaments are sorted into three areas (and those are two of them), and those two temperaments would blend and temper each other. (So you can't just look at either of them in isolation of the other). Put the two of them together, and the overall behavior would resemble a Melancholic (introverted, and yet with a critical edge).

    There could be other explanations (including the third area: http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...-affection.htm), but that's my theory.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  7. #17
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    OK. But just curious, do you identify with these at all:
    http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...-inclusion.htm
    http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...ic-control.htm
    The way that system works, the temperaments are sorted into three areas (and those are two of them), and those two temperaments would blend and temper each other. (So you can't just look at either of them in isolation of the other). Put the two of them together, and the overall behavior would resemble a Melancholic (introverted, and yet with a critical edge).

    There could be other explanations (including the third area: http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...-affection.htm), but that's my theory.
    I took some random test and scored almost evenly on choleric yesterday. So if I follow your logic yes, then your conclusion would be valid as I do relate to both those choleric and phlegmatic descriptions ignoring how both temperaments appear in stand-alone descriptions. Why do you think all INxPs must be phlegmatic or similar by the way?

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  8. #18
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    INP is the "Behind the Scenes" Interaction Style, which Berens even implied mapped to the four temperaments, with BtS, as "introverted" and "informing" or "people-focused", fitting Phlegmatic. In the temperament system I linked to, the Supine is revealed as holding the introverted/people-focus place, while Phlegmatic is all around moderate (inbetween). Still, in translation back to a four temperament system, they both fit BtS; with one as being a more emotionally energized version of the other (Phlegmatic has low energy).
    It really does seem to fit for most people.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  9. #19
    Junior Member Derogatory's Avatar
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    A few years ago I used to be totally the Choleric, but now I have made observations, that I'm more likely to act like the Sanguine. Of course, I totally depends on the situation, but probably the main features of sanguine in me are:
    1. I never shout.
    2. I better use witty words and sarcasm than just directly and harshly criticize somebody.
    3. Lately it's hard to make me seriously pissed off and nervous

  10. #20
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    #1 and 3 are something Sanguines do a lot, because they are expressive. What differentiates them from the Choleric is that they bounce out of those negative moods quicker.

    ENTP is likely both Sanguine and Choleric (ENP + NT). So perhaps you're just maturing and learning to control those emotions better. Or, since Sanguine would be the social temperament, and Choleric the leadership temperament, maybe it was circumstances before that pushed you more to the Choleric side. (I would call this "control issues", since that's the area of temperament I believe it corresponds to). Or perhaps tertiary Fe is pushing you more to the social side.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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