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  1. #1
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Default My theory that explains why ENTP's like to argue so much

    Okay, so it's no big secret that ENTP's are one of the most argumentative types out there. However, I've been trying to understand why we as ENTP's like to argue so damn much, and I believe that I have come up with an answer. I was looking at this thread on personality cafe started by the user "ENFPleasantly" and starting looking at how Fi manifests itself in the ENFP....

    [ENFP] The phases of an ENFP: growth

    Basically the article states that Fi beliefs are a source of major strength for the ENFP. In fact, the stronger the Fi user believes in something, the stronger they will fight for it. Beliefs and values for Fi users almost remind me the story of "The Three Little Pigs". Something that the Fi user barely believes in is almost like the straw house that the three little pigs built: It will provide mild resistance, but it's not that hard to make it crumble to the ground. If the ENFP has a mild belief in something, then they will provide an okay resistance to something, and it will be harder to make it crumble, but will a little force their wood house may crumble. However, when an Fi user has a very strong belief in something, it's almost like a brick fortress is built in their minds: nothing can stand in the way of this belief and penetrating through it would be like trying to penetrate an actual brick wall.

    So I was thinking about this, and I believe that a similar principle can be applied to the Ti function in ENTP's. For Ti users, understanding things, defining things, and figuring out how they work is key. It is absolutely essential for ENTP's to understand things, and they dedicate a lot of time to this practice. Now when another individual challenges an ENTP's understanding of something, and says that they are wrong on an issue, they get very defensive and often argue their point very aggressively. The reason being again, is because understanding is so important to them. Now I believe that Ti's understanding is just like Fi's beliefs and values: The more time that an ENTP has dedicated to understanding something, and the more thorough understanding they have come to on an issue, on a thing, or whatever, the more aggressively they will argue for it.

    What do you think of my theory?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    The more time that an ENTP has dedicated to understanding something, and the more thorough understanding they have come to on an issue, on a thing, or whatever, the more aggressively they will argue for it.
    sounds like the sunken cost fallacy.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Okay, so it's no big secret that ENTP's are one of the most argumentative types out there. However, I've been trying to understand why we as ENTP's like to argue so damn much, and I believe that I have come up with an answer. I was looking at this thread on personality cafe started by the user "ENFPleasantly" and starting looking at how Fi manifests itself in the ENFP....

    http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-arti...fp-growth.html

    Basically the article states that Fi beliefs are a source of major strength for the ENFP. In fact, the stronger the Fi user believes in something, the stronger they will fight for it. Beliefs and values for Fi users almost remind me the story of "The Three Little Pigs". Something that the Fi user barely believes in is almost like the straw house that the three little pigs built: It will provide mild resistance, but it's not that hard to make it crumble to the ground. If the ENFP has a mild belief in something, then they will provide an okay resistance to something, and it will be harder to make it crumble, but will a little force their wood house may crumble. However, when an Fi user has a very strong belief in something, it's almost like a brick fortress is built in their minds: nothing can stand in the way of this belief and penetrating through it would be like trying to penetrate an actual brick wall.

    So I was thinking about this, and I believe that a similar principle can be applied to the Ti function in ENTP's. For Ti users, understanding things, defining things, and figuring out how they work is key. It is absolutely essential for ENTP's to understand things, and they dedicate a lot of time to this practice. Now when another individual challenges an ENTP's understanding of something, and says that they are wrong on an issue, they get very defensive and often argue their point very aggressively. The reason being again, is because understanding is so important to them. Now I believe that Ti's understanding is just like Fi's beliefs and values: The more time that an ENTP has dedicated to understanding something, and the more thorough understanding they have come to on an issue, on a thing, or whatever, the more aggressively they will argue for it.

    What do you think of my theory?
    I think you need to reassess your sexuality lol jk. I kid only. Umm, yea well, this theory you say makes a lot of sense. And I'll add as ENTPs are visionaries...that tied to their desire to understand all things, if they understand something clearly, then it's probably going to be based in objectivity. And with that strong intellectual understanding, might work hard utilizing Ne and Ti to share or clarify the vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    sounds like the sunken cost fallacy.
    Like as with hoarders?
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Like as with hoarders?
    LOL, didn't think of that but yes - i suppose hoarders are the master of sunken cost.

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    Well I'm probably not ENTP, but anyway, I think of arguments as a refiner's fire that really test the structure of a thing and mold it to remove impurities until the properties of perfection emerge. It urges us to challenge things and make them better. Alternatively, I don't believe arguments should be used to gain an advantage over somebody, nor should they be used to erect barriers. The purpose should be constructive, not damaging.

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    maybe the sunken cost can be explained by our ego's? I've noted in the past that FJs tend to have a moral-identity (and are offended when its threatened), perhaps we have an intellectual one? maybe someone counter arguing our reasoning is on some level threatening to some deeply ingrained beliefs about our intellectual competence, a belief so ingrained in the Ti-judger mental development that we might not even pay it any attention, rather instead, we take it so much for granted that we put it in the background.
    to put my new theory on the table, think about what the habit of arguing implies: by doing so, by probing around the argument in the dance of Ti, we are essentially assuming that we can understand any reasoning, that there is no software too resource-heavy for our hardware to comprehend, no file too heavily encrypted for us to process.

    it's like a silent hubris in the background:
    "roses are red, the sky is blue, and i'm a freaking genius"

  7. #7
    Member tanstaafl28's Avatar
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    I don't have to be right all the time, in fact, I often learn more when I'm wrong. I think we're sophists. We will take whatever side we think gives us the the advantage, not to be right, but to learn better counter-arguments we haven't thought up yet. What is more effecient and elegant than getting others to argue with us for the purposes of testing out our arguments so we can improve them?

  8. #8
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    @ the OP-




    This explains it all.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl28 View Post
    What is more effecient and elegant than getting others to argue with us for the purposes of testing out our arguments so we can improve them?
    there's a saying in hebrew - "a knife is best sharpened by the blade of another"

    but there's more to it then simply becoming a better arguer - i've found myself changing my opinions and views again and again through good arguments, the more a possibility gets exposed to the bashing of counter arguments and seemingly survives, the more i trust it to be closer to the truth - and when i failed to break someone else's, i will adopt it.

  10. #10
    Member tanstaafl28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    there's a saying in hebrew - "a knife is best sharpened by the blade of another"

    but there's more to it then simply becoming a better arguer - i've found myself changing my opinions and views again and again through good arguments, the more a possibility gets exposed to the bashing of counter arguments and seemingly survives, the more i trust it to be closer to the truth - and when i failed to break someone else's, i will adopt it.
    No doubt it's a refinement process.

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