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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't know if there is any relationship between functional preference and handedness, but none is necessary for each dichotomy to operate in a similar manner.

    Type doesn't determine anything. It is an indicator (as the name implies) of something that already exists in each person. We should not confuse uncertainty or error in our ability to identify something with ambiguity in the thing itself.
    MBTI is type indicator, it indicates type, its not the type thats an indicator lol.

    read post 8 and 10 from this topic:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...developed.html
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  2. #12
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    entropie,

    I don't know how I missed your post before, unless we were posting at nearly the same time.

    Anyway, I like this that you said:

    I think its the natural and healthy state, where you cant be boxed in a type. All others who think they can be boxed start to live that mbti type image and by that become more and more that person. The more wise way would be thriving to achieve those things you suck at and by that transform into a jack of all trades or at least become sensitive for the things you lack.
    Yeah, that makes perfectly good sense...yeah, I like that.

    The type definitions of mbti are more a way to put things into words about people you have noticed but have issues with explaining to others. they are like many other psychological trait or preference models a way to talk about things which may had no form before. To say tho that you can box all humanity into 16 mbti types is ridicoulus.
    Yeah! See, now that makes a lot of sense to me.

    The 16 types alone are so american that as a middle european I always had problems finding myself in them. If I was to run around here and tell people that I am the inventor type, they'd put me away in a closed asylum.
    I believe you. I think people are far more complex than we can imagine, and often what is meant as a guideline becomes a 'sacred doctrine.' But, on the flip side, hamburgers made from sacred cows tastes about the same as those made from regular cows.

    On a first impression INTJ would fit you better. The way you put your functions into numbers and directly jumped into enneagram displays of personality seems very Te. Let alone the fact that you share unfinished thoughts for more input on your personality and make the topic discussable is kinda Te. A Ti would rather dwell on that him- or herself to then come up with reasons for his type, noone understands but he himself .
    Thank you. I mean, discussable is good. I like discussable.
    The sportive avatar, which shows a knack for fighting sports could be TJ, if you were to interpret that with a lot of fantasy.
    Oh, let me tell you about my avatar. I teach self-defense classes and I spend hours each week engaging in kung fu practice, so when I was looking for something that symbolized "me" I found that pic of a chick with a kick and thought, "yeah, that'll do."

    And the nerdy humor about sandwiches, at least graves the NT type for you in stone
    Nerdy humor is my favorite kind. [Oh, wait. Is there another kind? Just kidding. I love lots of different kinds of humor, but nerdy is definitely my favorite.]

    Coriolis,

    I don't know if there is any relationship between functional preference and handedness, but none is necessary for each dichotomy to operate in a similar manner.

    Type doesn't determine anything. It is an indicator (as the name implies) of something that already exists in each person. We should not confuse uncertainty or error in our ability to identify something with ambiguity in the thing itself.
    Interesting thoughts. Thank you .
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  3. #13
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Tests were all over for me because I'm borderline on I/E and F/T a lot of the time. So I finally just started reading through all the possible options and eliminating what I couldn't relate to at all. I feel like some weird ISFP/ESFP/ISTP mesh sometimes. Mostly though, I relate to ISFP the best. I just recognize that I'm a fairly social ISFP.


  4. #14
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    ...I decided to waste some time I really didn't have to waste today, but I was in an investigative mood, so I took online tests. I scored INTJ on both of them, just barely INTJ but still INTJ, then I went and got an old-fashioned version of the Keirsey Temperament Sorter and low and behold if I didn't score INTJ on that one, too, but my Te is Te only by one point. So, I have determined that I am, indeed, a person who is between types. Now, I can't help but wonder if many of us, maybe most of us, are actually between types. It seems that the human personality would be too fluid to actually fit "nicely" into a package. Just some thoughts.

    So, what do you all think? Not about my type. I don't care what you think about that. haha....I mean about many people being "between" types.
    I dont think that Thinking users are heartless, that's just ridiculous and stereotypical understanding rather than typological understanding of how people reason and rationalise.

    I've always believed, and there's sufficient evidence from my reading on the topic, that mankind is more rationalising than reasoning and that affect is over riding of logic, anone who claims to be purely logical doesnt get it and can be the most dangerous sort of being lacking self-awareness. Unfortunately a hell of a lot of people are like that and I they are either unconscious feelers or feelers of the worst sort, a lot of them will claim to be thinkers, they arent, they're just really good at rationalising after the fact and games playing of the Eric Berne order.

    A thinker I'd suggest is someone who tries to reason rather than respond to emotional twinges or crisis, who is self-aware, who values reasoning practically or theoretically (someone could be a practical reasoner who objects to abstract or philosophical reasoning or logic puzzling and still be a thinker by this measure) and displays or attempts to build their personal resilence through rational and consequential thinking. Most of all I'd class as a thinker anyone who is more comfortable behaving this way and who does so automatically or habitually.

    So far as "between types" goes, I think that everyone will display a stronger preference for one type than another, even if they feel an attachment to both and I do think that under stress or when euphoric for any reason (usually an organic chemistry one) when people are "besides themselves" they can display the traits of their "opposite", it doesnt make them their opposite though.

    Someone had a good diagramatic description of how personalities could alternate between types in a sort of spectrum in another thread once, although it was a sort of cyclical reasoned idea which I'm not sure about, there are seasons in nature, in life, in time, although I am not sure about it because I dont necessarily believe either the linerar liberal version of history or degeneration/regeneration version of history held by conservatives to be correct.

    Plus at the base of it all, on this forum no less than any other context, people valourise and villify different types and thereafter its just a matter of labelling people are good or bad in accordance with those ideas. The greatest examples I can think of in that regard is how sensing is universally condemned in comparison with intuition when Jung and others thought that was definitely not the case, something similar has happened with feelings, when more sensible thinkers, such as Erich Fromm, have reflected upon the value of feeling functions and their universal devaluation or invalidation at the cultural level. Solitary Walker did a good thread on this sort of folkish typology and its errors.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I dont think that Thinking users are heartless,
    Me, either, Lark. That's why I said that. I think that anyone who is made of flesh and blood and lives in this world, has the potential to show compassion on another person.

    that's just a ridiculous and stereotypical understanding rather than typological understanding of how people reason and rationalise.
    Yep. It's pretty one-dimensional.

    I've always believed, and there's sufficient evidence from my reading on the topic, that mankind is more rationalising than reasoning and that affect is over riding of logic,
    I have experienced this in conversations more than once. A person can rationalize anything but that doesn't make it reasonable.

    anyone who claims to be purely logical doesn't get it and can be the most dangerous sort of being lacking self-awareness.
    No human is completely logical and given the nature of human beings, it would be illogical to assume that we could be or should be. However, some are more objective than others. And some, well, some are just plain loopy.

    A thinker I'd suggest is someone who tries to reason rather than respond to emotional twinges or crisis,
    That's a good way of looking at it.

    who is self-aware, who values reasoning practically or theoretically (someone could be a practical reasoner who objects to abstract or philosophical reasoning or logic puzzling and still be a thinker by this measure) and displays or attempts to build their personal resilence through rational and consequential thinking. Most of all I'd class as a thinker anyone who is more comfortable behaving this way and who does so automatically or habitually.
    Yeah, I can see that.

    So far as "between types" goes, I think that everyone will display a stronger preference for one type than another, even if they feel an attachment to both and I do think that under stress or when euphoric for any reason (usually an organic chemistry one) when people are "besides themselves" they can display the traits of their "opposite", it doesnt make them their opposite though.
    Hmmmm...now that is something to think about. Now, you've got me trying to dissect how I act under stress. I'm usually very calm, but under stress? I spring into action, meaning I don't freak out and am apt to slap somebody who does and tell them to hush so I can think and think, I do, as fast as my brain can work. I start looking for solutions. Wow, cool, you helped me figure out how my brain works under stress. haha. I wonder if my eyes dart back and forth like a cartoon character's [you know how they do on cartoons when they're thinking really fast?]

    Seriously, I analyze the situation and do whatever needs to be done to solve the crisis and I don't think about it until later, then after I think about it, I have an emotional [and sometimes physical reaction]

    Someone had a good diagramatic description of how personalities could alternate between types in a sort of spectrum in another thread once,
    Sounds interesting. And I think that they do, maybe as you say, the real one comes to the surface under stress.

    although it was a sort of cyclical reasoned idea which I'm not sure about, there are seasons in nature, in life, in time, although I am not sure about it because I dont necessarily believe either the linerar liberal version of history or degeneration/regeneration version of history held by conservatives to be correct.
    Yeah, that's a whole new can of worms and I'm too busy to go fishing today

    Plus at the base of it all, on this forum no less than any other context, people valourise and villify different types and thereafter its just a matter of labelling people are good or bad in accordance with those ideas. The greatest examples I can think of in that regard is how sensing is universally condemned in comparison with intuition
    Well, that's just not right. I mean sensors are all right. The world needs them. Besides, one of my best friends are ISTPs and ISTJs and I am okay with them. They look at me like I'm from Mars sometimes, but it's not their fault they don't speak alien dialects. They're still great people and very smart in the areas where I am lacking.


    when Jung and others thought that was definitely not the case, something similar has happened with feelings, when more sensible thinkers, such as Erich Fromm, have reflected upon the value of feeling functions and their universal devaluation or invalidation at the cultural level. Solitary Walker did a good thread on this sort of folkish typology and its errors.
    I'll have to check out Erich Fromm. Thanks. Rats. Lunch is over. Gotta get back to work,
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  6. #16
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    I understand type much along the lines of entropie, as "shorthand" for attributes that already exist within us. I believe that we're each individually tinted on a sliding scale, and MBTI type preference lines on the spectrum are useful but ultimately arbitrary. I think all of us are technically "between types", because type is completely theoretical itself, and exists only in the world of concept, though the world of concept can be a shortcut to understanding more than we could grasp slugging through concrete detail. There's no telling if T and F really splits the spectrum at a good point - maybe humans in general are much more F than we realize. Some psychologists think there are far more Ss than Ns - brings into question the nature of the preferences, whether they're objective or relative to the general population, etc. I think most people will fall fairly easily into a type category, but virtually all of those people will exhibit leanings towards any number of different types. Truly rare would be the people who feel "perfectly" categorized by a type, or who feel exactly between two types.

  7. #17
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    You strike me @Ene as being very diplomatic and spiritual - an INTJ could possess those traits, but it may not naturally flow as well, expecially the agreeableness and harmony part. I perhaps over-considered INTJ for my own type as well. But anyway, it seems to me that of all the feeling types, INFJ seems to supposedly be the most objective, and as such, many seem to consider INTJ for their own type, but the opposite case of INTJ considering INFJ seems less common. Also, if you are a type 5, then you could have certain investigative traits that could display an illusion of a thinking proference. I'm not saying that you aren't an INTJ, but I don't think you are. INFJ to me actually seems like a great fit for your type.

  8. #18
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    I think the healthiest peoples are between types.

  9. #19
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    No, you don't. You heartless INTJ!

  10. #20
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @skylights,

    I think this is a very insightful and observant statement:
    There's no telling if T and F really splits the spectrum at a good point - maybe humans in general are much more F than we realize. Some psychologists think there are far more Ss than Ns - brings into question the nature of the preferences, whether they're objective or relative to the general population, etc
    Raptor Wizard,

    Thank you for your honest and thoughtful reply. Also, it is nice to be considered diplomatic, spiritual and harmonious. The investigative thing is right on about me. Just as a side note, I was a good kid but when I did get into trouble, it almost always had to do with being investigative, and occassionally [believe it or not] with being .

    Jontherobot,

    Me, too. Me too! Okay, I'm biased, but me too! hehe.

    Giggly,

    Will go to Oz with me so I can get one?
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

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