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Thread: Ask an INTJ

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    Senior Member Daedalus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post

    Ni obviously does not operate in a vacuum. As I mentioned, it is influenced by all my experiences, everything I have learned, observed, or understood. This includes not only previous ideas, but other ideas suggested by those ideas, later versions of those ideas, evolving interpretations, etc. Yes, change is large part of what Ni perceives, but the focus is on how it all comes together in the present: how the convolution of all relevant changes leads to the existing situation, and more importantly, to the future. It is a bit like taking a derivative, where we measure not the value of some property at a specific point in time, but rather how that property is changing at that moment. Another way to look at it is to contrast Ne's view of current external ideas with Ni's view of current internal ideas.

    On Edit : moved the reply to a new thread

    How does Ni work? some thoughts
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...97#post1882297
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  2. #762
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    You, my dear, ask the best questions in this thread.

    Let's just hope the response to this one doesn't get lost to the ether...

    How does inferior Se manifest in INTJs?

    Inferior Se manifests in many different ways. Some of which I'm aware of:

    • Compulsive need for sensory stimuli when stressed. When I'm stressed, I feel the need to take a hot shower. Many people might say a similar thing, but I doubt it manifests as consistently, strongly, and compulsively as it does in me. I will take a hot shower, get out, and then want to get right back in. I don't want it to stop. As long as I'm feeling soothing hot water rolling over my head, I'm not trippin about whatever's going on. Often times it actually allows me to look at the matter in a clearer light, clear my head, get back into a more productive zone. (A similar thing might happen with sex or masturbation, depending on what's easy/available at the moment. This isn't as consistent as the shower thing, though.) (Other INTJs, I believe, might also report something similar with substance use, whether alcohol, tobacco, or other drugs. This has never been much of an issue for me. I [have] use[d] all these things in moderation, at some time in my life, but have never had much of a compulsive use or abuse problem. I've seen, though, that INTJs are the third most likely type to get help for a substance abuse problem.)

    • A high sensitivity to unpleasing sensory phenomena., whether a sight, sound, a smell, a taste, a temperature, a texture, a position, having someone touch me, etc. This one can be pretty bad, cuz it's highly uncontrollable, can rear its head in relationship situations, wherein the other person is trying to cuddle, or is touching me in a certain way, or a number of other things, and, I dunno, I can have just a really visceral reaction caused by frustration over the other person not realizing how uncomfortable/displeased they're making me. It's not uniform, either; something that I'll enjoy at one time will be something that will bother me at another. There's something disgustingly immature, imo, about expecting the other person to realize the discomfort they're causing you, but, at the same time, part of me says that the person should be attuned to such a thing. The thing is, then my rational brain kicks back in and recognizes how absurd it is to expect the other person to always "just know". I'd say this is one of the uglier manifestations of it.

    • Information addiction.

    • Unusual/inordinate attention to details. This one is well-covered in Naomi Quenk's

    • Pervasive sexuality. I'm kind of just generally a hornball. It's like part of me will always be a 23-yr old SP. My ENFP ex used to get pretty annoyed when we would walk around a video store and I'd always stop and check out (every single one of) the C-rated boob flicks. With Se in the demonic position, I don't think she appreciated my conundrum. I can't really help myself. If the cover is enticing, I'm gunna pick it up, look at the back to see if there's any more eye candy, and there's really no two ways about it. I don't see anything wrong with it either. These are my urges. Why the fuck should you care? Sexually, this manifests as a willingness to explore, which is probably why INTJs have a reputation for being phreaks in the bed.

    • INTJs' oft-noted obsession with anime. Anything else explain this oddity?

    Are you aware of accessing it in the moment, or with later reflection?

    Well, I mean, first off, does one have to know what Se/inferior Se is in order to be aware of accessing it?

    I've always been aware of the above-mentioned attributes to some degree, and recognized them as being due to something inside me, and I'd say I've steadily become more aware of it over time. Some people who I'm close to, throughout my life, have commented on my... uhm... strong sexuality. I'm not sure if it's because I'm an sx dom, or inferior Se, or both, or what, but I would lay at least some of the blame on the Se. Even if it's our 4th function, it's kinda always there, subconsciously, underlying everything.

    I'd say, now, with a strong theoretical backing in typology, I'm pretty aware of it most of the time. That doesn't mean I necessarily do or can do anything about it. Frankly, I like those C-rated boob flick covers (I mean, it's not like I've ever actually rented one or anything [I'm not a frickin SP]); I like taking showers when I'm stressed; rubbing one out or fucking my girlfriend can be a great stress reliever; and, well, I like (good) anime). I do want to be able to handle displeasing sensory phenomena better. I try to, and I succeed to some extent, but I don't find my current type/level of response acceptable.

    Do you see yourself using it in a negative, immature way?

    I think I've already covered this.

    ***

    I'm kinda done with my first crack at this.

    Ima keep adding to the above over the next few days.

    Feel free to ask follow-up questions; I'm pretty sure I've got more to say about it.
    What I wonder - and I seriously don't know the answer to this - is what inferior Se is like when it's not acting up. They say Ni is paired with Se - they are dual functions and they work together. So, Se, provides the data to the Ni function or something like that. But it's our inferior function. So, it's not very good. We don't use it consciously or barely.

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    Do you INTJs want to kill all the INTPs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Do you INTJs want to kill all the INTPs?
    No, they are brilliant and i like them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Do you INTJs want to kill all the INTPs?
    I wouldn't go so far as to say that I wished harm upon them. Even if I'm usually not very fond of their ways.

  6. #766
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    What I wonder - and I seriously don't know the answer to this - is what inferior Se is like when it's not acting up. They say Ni is paired with Se - they are dual functions and they work together.
    The following comments are from Dario Nardi:

    "Jung described how the functions exist in dynamic function, and as we mature, especially at midlife, we may integrate opposite functions. Someone who prefers Ni, may be initially closed to using Se, finding it unpleasant, difficult, and unrewarding. This would result in one-sided behavior in many situations. "

    "Jung believed that psychological dysfunction would result without the compensating balance of one's opposite function, and that this compensation happened naturally."


    This is an old post with examples of the opposing cognitive processes working in tandem:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1129873

    The link at the bottom of that post no longer points to the correct page, but the source was Dario Nardi.

  7. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    What I wonder - and I seriously don't know the answer to this - is what inferior Se is like when it's not acting up. They say Ni is paired with Se - they are dual functions and they work together. So, Se, provides the data to the Ni function or something like that. But it's our inferior function. So, it's not very good. We don't use it consciously or barely.
    I won't claim to have a definitive answer, but I can describe how I use Se rather consciously and to good effect. First, as a scientist and an experimentalist, observations are my daily bread. Everything I do rests on (lots of) accurate observations of tangible, real-world events. To some degree, then, I have had to train myself to handle this type of information. It is a learned skill, and I can use my much more comfortable Te to check whether I am doing it right. Second, I use Se in a number of my hobbies, principally music. There is a Fi-Se connection in playing the notes, hearing the notes, and feeling what it says to me. This, too, is a learned skill to large degree, though the Se-component is just one part. (It is interesting that when I perform, one of the greatest dangers is that my mind will wander in the middle of a piece, due to all the things I start thinking about once I get into it. I really have to focus on the moment.) I suppose Se is part of aesthetic appreciation of anything tangible.
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  8. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Do you INTJs want to kill all the INTPs?
    I love INTPs. My little sister is an INTP. They're like INTJ one-offs with a few bizarre quirks.
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    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The following comments are from Dario Nardi:

    "Jung described how the functions exist in dynamic function, and as we mature, especially at midlife, we may integrate opposite functions. Someone who prefers Ni, may be initially closed to using Se, finding it unpleasant, difficult, and unrewarding. This would result in one-sided behavior in many situations. "

    "Jung believed that psychological dysfunction would result without the compensating balance of one's opposite function, and that this compensation happened naturally."


    This is an old post with examples of the opposing cognitive processes working in tandem:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1129873

    The link at the bottom of that post no longer points to the correct page, but the source was Dario Nardi.
    I had forgotten about that post you made. I actually actually have Nardi's book. It was a bit hard to find (out of print). Will have to go back and read it again - or the parts that I skimmed over .


    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I won't claim to have a definitive answer, but I can describe how I use Se rather consciously and to good effect. First, as a scientist and an experimentalist, observations are my daily bread. Everything I do rests on (lots of) accurate observations of tangible, real-world events. To some degree, then, I have had to train myself to handle this type of information. It is a learned skill, and I can use my much more comfortable Te to check whether I am doing it right. Second, I use Se in a number of my hobbies, principally music. There is a Fi-Se connection in playing the notes, hearing the notes, and feeling what it says to me. This, too, is a learned skill to large degree, though the Se-component is just one part. (It is interesting that when I perform, one of the greatest dangers is that my mind will wander in the middle of a piece, due to all the things I start thinking about once I get into it. I really have to focus on the moment.) I suppose Se is part of aesthetic appreciation of anything tangible.
    Interesting. Thanks for explaining that. I think I just don't understand Se as well as some of the other functions. Will have to revisit. Discerning how much of the data gathering is Se related (or isn't) is what I get confused about.

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Interesting. Thanks for explaining that. I think I just don't understand Se as well as some of the other functions. Will have to revisit. Discerning how much of the data gathering is Se related (or isn't) is what I get confused about.
    This view may be simplistic, but I consider Se to relate to the direct and immediate input from my 5 senses, including any physical sensations (I'm cold, have a headache, etc.), and even emotions. I can analyze emotions, act on them, ignore them, etc. but the in-the-moment sensation of excitement, sadness, anger, whatever I see as part of Se.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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