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Thread: Ask an INTJ

  1. #741
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    When are you not confident? Be honest here. It's said that INTJ is among one of the most confident types but there must be something that makes you rather unsure of yourself.
    A lot of INTJ guys are not very confident when it comes to girls.

    Not me though. I'm totally confident about that.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  2. #742
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    When are you not confident? Be honest here. It's said that INTJ is among one of the most confident types but there must be something that makes you rather unsure of yourself.
    My INTJ friend and former roommate is not at all confident with relationships, be they with friends or SOs. Two examples that I can think of:
    1) She never knows if/when to call someone back for a second date. Sometimes she waits two or three weeks!
    2) She doesn't consider anyone to be her friend unless they explicitly tell her: "We're friends".
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  3. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It would be illogical to deny reality, and such a useful one at that.

    On the other hand, we could just be trolling.


    The funny thing is this is, I suspect, one of those Schrodinger's cat comments that can either be totally serious or a joke, depending on how the situation plays out. Both at once until the hypothetical collapses into one reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    @skylights, since you're an ENFP and involved in this conversation -- how do ENFPs feel about small talk? Seems like people who use tert or inferior Fi (like me and Coriolis) dislike it for the most part.
    I don't mind it, but I tend to launch it straight into deep talk, so maybe that's why I don't mind it. I don't think I have any ability to do sustained small talk. I'll either keep bringing up other stuff, or wander off and think about something else instead. To be fair, I don't think most people like small talk. Those who tend to do it, I think understand its social importance in terms of smoothing initial awkwardness and getting a read on the other person's feelings and personality. I don't think anyone really just likes small talk for the sake of small talk.

    The reason why I chose the metaphor is that pieces in a tessellation, if it were like a puzzle, are identically shaped and easy to switch around. I was imagining them in all different colors (and not as identical; I should have clarified). Say you've got a blue piece (representing a particular piece of Si data that fits into the general whole), and when you look at the tessellation, you get used to that particular piece in that particular section being blue. Then the piece breaks, or something falls on it and dents it, or it becomes flawed in some other way. Technically speaking, with Si, it is very easy to get rid of that piece of data and replace it with a new one; the problem is that it's a red piece, not a blue one, and even though the piece fits in perfectly, it takes a little while for my Ne to get used to the tessellation as a whole, without that blue piece being there. The picture is different now.
    Interesting. :o

    The bolded is so interesting! Maybe I've been projecting this whole time, when I thought INTJs acted like that while in the mindset of "They're beyond hope anyway, so I might as well have fun with them". But I guess it makes sense, then, because it is leaving their options open in the Ni style, leaving room for them to exercise their free will and either, as you said, redeem themselves, or give themselves more rope on their noose.
    I know that at a certain point my ENFJ friend will just "back away" from people, and observe peacefully as they either fix themselves for themselves or just go on and hang themselves, so to speak. Regardless of which it ends up being, that distance gives her safety and she no longer claims responsibility for anything that goes on with them. It's like she has written them out of her picture, so she doesn't really care anymore. Curiously, this can make her nicer to them. I remember one incident where she was an RA of this girl with behavior issues, and she was very strict with her, though consoling, and she really cared about this girl. Eventually the girl succumbed to her issues and had to go to a school for behavioral change instead of our university, and suddenly the ENFJ and her became casual friends. It was bizarre to me, but makes sense in a JeNi light. She was now out of the picture, so to speak. It didn't matter what happened to her, because my friend was no longer responsible. So it didn't matter how my friend acted with her once it was certain she wouldn't be staying at the university.

    I only know two ESFJs (and I don't know them very well), and I've never heard them speak poorly of anything-- neither of them ever complains, neither of them ever gets vocally upset (because they both silently fume, like I do, when they're angry), and they focus 99% of their social energy on other people when they're chatting with them. But of the three or four ENFJs I know, there is one who acts just like the ESFJs you describe, to the point that I mistook her for an ExTJ. (Of course, she's a 3w2, and the other ENFJs I know are 2w1 or 2w3, so that might make a difference in the drive and directness of their Fe.)
    I feel like ENFJs have more of a distance to them than ESFJs... I think it's the mind-removal of Ni. The space inherent there. Sometimes it comes across as coldness, depending on their enneatype... my 3w4 friend I would call "cold" to even "icy", at times, whereas my 2w3 coworker I would call "slippery" in that he will seem to constantly change his opinion to match whoever he's talking with. They're almost always operating at that second layer of N as well as at the primary level of attention, which is simultaneously an advantage (big picture processing) and a disadvantage (inability to invest their full mental energy in reality). I feel this with all NJ types - more of a gap between them and me than with SJs. I think this is part of why I feel more comfortable with SJs, generally - the mind-gap with NJs puts me on edge. Which isn't really fair, perhaps, because I have that mind-gap too, but I don't have very explicit goal-directed action, to tie into what you asked about perception. It creeps me out a little (sorry, INTJs) that I know they are (1) distanced from me at a primary-perception level and (2) possessing an agenda that probably includes me but I don't know what it is, and probably will not get to know. Anyway, my ENFJ 3w4 friend could easily be mistaken either for an NTJ or an I. I suspect her father to be an INTJ 8w9 and suspect his influence is part of this. You can tell she is MUCH more like him than like her ESFP mom (they are divorced).

    I have DEFINITELY seen it in NTJs. ENTJs do it very skillfully, I think. Though many of the INTJs I know will come across as suspiciously vague or curt when they leave out information.
    I am not surprised by this, to be honest.

    That makes sense. How would you say it affects your perception?
    I think most of all, I take in information for the sake of information, and so I tend to just look at what is most interesting to me, and less looking at information for what will be useful to me (though of course I believe that all information is incredibly useful). I don't apply a priority lens first or even second, unlike EJs or IJs, respectively. So I think the reason Si is inferior to me is I will collect static detail data at the level to which I need it to make sense of my Ne patterns, but will not seek it explicitly otherwise. I somewhat understand the INTJ perspective on it being tiring to be forthright in that it is tiring to have to describe things in exact reality when we perceive in large subtle intuition patterns (and for an NF, overall big picture feeling "atmospheres"), but I do also find it easier to just forthrightly state what I see than to try to edit it to a certain picture that I want to present, because I don't put very much mental energy into creating an idea of what I want - more like I spend most of my mental energy looking at what is around me and trying to find all the possibilities that could exist, and then I use Fi to decide which possibilities resonate best with my internal self, and align myself with those. So basically I perceive for the sake of discovery and engage Si to the extent I must have it to be able to make connections - and the more Si data I have, the more refined and correct my connections will be, which is why I should really work on my Si even though it often feels like listening to too much unnecessary data. I think Te doesn't help in that realm, either. Te is totally like, COME ONNNN I JUST WANT TO DOOOO ITTTT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    How does inferior Se manifest in INTJs?

    Inferior Se manifests in many different ways. Some of which I'm aware of:

    • When I'm stressed, I feel the need to take a hot shower. Many people might say a similar thing, but I doubt it manifests to the extent it does to me. I will take a hot shower, get out, and then want to get right back in. I don't want it to stop. As long as I'm feeling soothing hot water, I'm not trippin about whatever's going on. Often times it actually allows me to look at the matter in a clearer light, clear my head, get back into a more productive zone. (a similar thing might happen with sex or masturbation, depending on what's easy/available at the moment. This isn't as consistent as the shower thing, though.)

    • A sensitivity to unpleasing sensory phenomena, whether a sight, sound, a smell, a taste, a temperature, a texture, a position, having someone touch me, etc. This one can be pretty bad, cuz it's highly uncontrollable, can rear its head in relationship situations, wherein the other person is trying to cuddle, or is touching me in a certain way, or a number of other things, and, I dunno, I can have just a really nasty visceral reaction caused by frustration over the other person not realizing how uncomfortable/displeased they're making me. It's not uniform, either; something that I'll enjoy at one time will be something that will bother me at another. There's something disgustingly immature, imo, about expecting the other person to realize the discomfort they're causing you, but, at the same time, part of me says that the person should be attuned to such a thing. The thing is, then my rational brain kicks back in and recognizes how absurd it is to expect the other person to always "just know". I'd say this is one of the uglier manifestations of it.

    • I'm also kind of just generally a hornball. My ENFP ex used to almost get seriously annoyed when we would walk around a video store and I'd always stop and check out the C-rated boob flicks. I can't really help myself. If the cover is enticing, I'm gunna pick it up, look at the back to see if there are any more hot pics, and there's really no two ways about it. With Se in the demonic position, I don't think she appreciated my conundrum.
    Curiously, I experience similar quirks, perhaps as a shared result of inferior Sensing, or also perhaps as a shared result of 6 sx. When I am very stressed or tired, I revel in overwhelming physical sensation, like showering, massage, yoga, comfort food, and sex. It "shuts down" my mind chatter. I suspect this is 6-related for me more than S-related. I have a hard time with loud noises, very bright lights, strobe lights, and strong smells. I have to encourage boys to be slow and intentional about how they touch me because I hate fast or uncertain touches, like awkward brushes or grabs or prods. I'm a hornball too. Oopsie.

  4. #744
    Senior Member Circle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    My INTJ friend and former roommate is not at all confident with relationships, be they with friends or SOs. Two examples that I can think of:
    1) She never knows if/when to call someone back for a second date. Sometimes she waits two or three weeks!
    2) She doesn't consider anyone to be her friend unless they explicitly tell her: "We're friends".
    This sounds exactly like all the INTJs I know. I suppose #1 because they are careful with others' feelings and also so self-sufficient. And, #2 because they don't like to make assumptions? INTJs are awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    It creeps me out a little (sorry, INTJs) that I know they are (1) distanced from me at a primary-perception level and (2) possessing an agenda that probably includes me but I don't know what it is, and probably will not get to know.
    Hehe.

  6. #746
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    I'm shifting this from the Signs of Ni thread to here:


    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    You are only a figment of our imagination.

    To the extent that you do not comply with our vision, that is a problem with you, not with our vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Otherwise known as
    Solipsism.
    So how does anyone trust you?

    But seriously, how do you account for the right to free will for those who you love and respect? (Especially a significant other.) Do you let them help you craft their role in your vision? Or do they just happen to fall into your vision? What happens if they depart from your vision?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post


    Spoil plz.

  7. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    My INTJ friend and former roommate is not at all confident with relationships, be they with friends or SOs. Two examples that I can think of:
    1) She never knows if/when to call someone back for a second date. Sometimes she waits two or three weeks!
    2) She doesn't consider anyone to be her friend unless they explicitly tell her: "We're friends".
    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    This sounds exactly like all the INTJs I know. I suppose #1 because they are careful with others' feelings and also so self-sufficient. And, #2 because they don't like to make assumptions? INTJs are awesome.
    You know, I'd say you're being pretty forgiving here, regarding our ineptitude when it comes to socializing/relating, but the truth is, you've actually kinda hit the nail on the head. That's not to say there aren't more negative ways of shining a light on it that aren't true as well, but, getting to what someone asked earlier about what we wish more people recognized about us, I'd say this is a pretty good one. It's not what we have a reputation for, and we can be the exact opposite in certain cases, but I would say that I do try to be careful with peoples' feelings (more than most people, imo), and I don't like to make assumptions about people, or, perhaps better put, I don't like to act on assumptions that I'm not yet sure are true. I give people their time and space, give them an opportunity to send the right signals, and, if they do, great, if they don't, too bad. Forcing myself on somebody is not something I'm interested in.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I'm a hornball too. Oopsie.
    As @Starry once said: ENFPs are all talk in this regard...

  8. #748
    Senior Member Circle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    You know, I'd say you're being pretty forgiving here, regarding our ineptitude when it comes to socializing/relating, but the truth is, you've actually kinda hit the nail on the head. That's not to say there aren't more negative ways of shining a light on this that aren't true as well, but, getting to what someone asked earlier about what we wish more people recognized about us, I'd say this is a pretty good one. It's not what we have a reputation for, and we can be the exact opposite in certain cases, but I would say that I do try to be careful with peoples' feelings, and I don'y like to make assumptions about people, or, perhaps better put, I don't like to act on assumptions that I'm not yet sure are true. I give people their time and space, give them an opportunity to send the right signals, and, if they do, great, if they don't, too bad. Forcing myself on somebody is not something I'm interested in.
    INTJs are among the most respectful and dignified types I know. They err on the side of giving enough space and consideration. Though this can cause them problems they at least don't inflict themselves on others, in most cases, until the friendship is proven. They are great!

  9. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    As @Starry once said: ENFPs are all talk in this regard...


    That's what you'd like to think. You're just jealous you don't have one.

    But seriously, nah, I even surprised myself. I had no idea. Just when you think you're innocent...

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I'm shifting this from the Signs of Ni thread to here:
    Nice.

    I thought to myself last night that this should occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    So how does anyone trust you?

    But seriously, how do you account for the right to free will for those who you love and respect? (Especially a significant other.) Do you let them help you craft their role in your vision? Or do they just happen to fall into your vision? What happens if they depart from your vision?
    Sorry, I thought it was clear from my response last night that I was joking (mocking what would be [and can be] an unhealthy way for an (I)N(T)J to go about living their life/engaging in relationships [or any human being for that matter {we just might be more disposed to it, due to Ni}]), but, based on some of the responses in that thread, apparently it was not.

    *will be back hear with full response shortly*

    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    INTJs are among the most respectful and dignified types I know. They err on the side of giving enough space and consideration. Though this can cause them problems they at least don't inflict themselves on others, in most cases, until the friendship is proven. They are great!
    Wow... interesting that you would notice this... I generally feel this goes completely unnoticed... it is true and regrettable that it does cause us problems, and, frankly, it can be really annoying at times, and it's easy to write it off to other things (insecurity being a primary one [and I can't say there's no truth to it]), but, I think the most accurate depiction is that we put a higher premium on giving people their space and consideration than others, and so, to get us over that hump, there's got to be a pretty damn clear sign that the person wants us over that hump. Honestly, this is the source of some of the greatest perturbation in my life; I appreciate that you not only recognize it, but appreciate it. Not sure if I've ever seen that before.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Spoil plz.
    Yes, do spoil.

    @Mia.

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