Why are you so intent on convincing me you're right?
Why do you keep looking at me like I'm a moron?
No, wait, don't answer the second one.
I have a question for you INTJ-holes: (joke)
I understand that you guys are like, really deeply involved with your ideas about things, your constructs if you will, but why when confronted with contradictory, or counter information do you guys stay so, so, well, bull-headedly rigid?!?!?
At times like these you guys seem more uber-fanatical than that of being uber-rational.
This ENFP, me, loves herself some good solid discourse and debate. But arguing with some of you gives this girl, me, a headache, it's as if you JUST WON'T LISTEN, to any information that will or would lead you to have to deconstruct what has/had taken you so long to build.
*sighs*
Tenacious, the whole lot of you.
2) We're not looking at you like you're a moron, we're looking at you like you're delicious. I guess it's easy to confuse the two.
Good question.
The 5w8 is typically understood to be an impossible conclusion - the traditional Enneagram formula would have the individual discard the 8 in favor of his tertiary variable (for me, it would transform into a 5w6...).
Conversely, some believe that 8 is a natural extension of the 6; from "Defender" into "Leader", perhaps. The mechanics of this transition are fairly academic (and mostly outside the letter of the initial equation).
Therefore, the choice is one of personal fragrance - I find that 8 is closer to my approximate behavioral routine than 6. As such, it makes less sense to cater to historical routine, if said routine is less descriptive than is useful for me.
I've also encountered xNTJs with an 8w7 description. ENTJs are often the closest to this general sum. I remember you briefly typed yourself as an ENTP - is it possible you might be closer to an ENTJ?
(sidenote - I think the negative spin directed towards ENTJs is (mostly) without credible merit and - more often than not - plays to the insecurities of the aggressor moreso than the actualities of the ENTJ...).
htb is a good example of a well-balanced ENTJ.
This is the thread that cemented my belief in the 5w8 as my de facto Enneagram registration. Magic Poriferan has a sophisticated understanding of the Enneagram and was a great resource.
Well, I've considered it, but I don't really feel that "need to lead" that is so often described by every ENTJ profile, ever. There have been a few credible people before you that have suggested the possibility. Recently I had been living in a very unhealthy "loop". I hadn't any knowledge of the Enneagram at that time, but reading it now, describes my actions almost perfectly.
From what I gather, 5s and 8s are motivated by similar factors, a strong will for independence. I would like to find more information into the different types of INTJs. There are very clearly different "brands" of INTJs. I can tell, but I can't really put my finger on why.
I'm not sure what crafts variations in the INTJ manifold. Some of us are pithy and self-righteous. Others are educated and humble. Like all types, the global description probably offers only a sliver of truth into the realities that connect us to other, fundamentally, like-minded peoples.
Is there anything specific that you've (or others) noticed, in terms of oddly-shaped INTJs?
1) Because we think we are. We're right until proven otherwise. This 'convincing' is really us trying to get you to prove us wrong, to test our thoughts against the outside world.
2) We're not looking at you like you're a moron, we're looking at you like you're delicious. I guess it's easy to confuse the two.
Yeah, I pretty much get that, but usually I'll be the one who says it's okay for us to have different views on the subject, but INTJ is like "no, those other views are misinformed" like he just can't possibly accept that there could be different conclusions based on the same stuff.
Ah, okay, well, that makes sense.
I think actually the look I get most often from INTJ's is more of a dumbfounded smile. There's one at work that likes to go on anti-Bush diatribes, and I'll sometimes interject something like "yeah, but you're overlooking President Bush's rockin' fun coolie-ness." And he'll give me that look like "I've just been hit with a grenade filled with confetti and all I can do is sit here and bask in the colorful pieces."
Yeah, I pretty much get that, but usually I'll be the one who says it's okay for us to have different views on the subject, but INTJ is like "no, those other views are misinformed" like he just can't possibly accept that there could be different conclusions based on the same stuff.