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Thread: Ask an INTJ

  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    The correct answer is probably "it is neither, it is neutral." (Sigh, this is why I like INTPs more than INTJs.)

    So, do you believe that optimism is always unrealistic, or is it possible that both optimism and realism can coexist in the same plane together at least some of the time?

    Hmm, this may be time for a Venn Diagram!
    Erratic Optimisim + Erratic Pessimism does not Realism make.

    As you say, you are an optimist; therefore anyone who is realistic or pessimistic appears pessimistic to you.


  2. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Erratic Optimisim + Erratic Pessimism does not Realism make.

    As you say, you are an optimist; therefore anyone who is realistic or pessimistic appears pessimistic to you.

    I dislike you. Mocking the Venn Diagrams! I Venn Diagrams! (almost wrote I VD there... )

    Also, I get that realism =/= pessimism. And realism is appreciated by me because well, that's what NTs are usually good at. I just think sometimes it would behoove us all to be a little more than what we are. I need to be a bit more realistic at times, but I think you Realists need to be a bit more optimisitc at times too.

    Would it be a good mix to be optimistically realistic?

  3. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Would it be a good mix to be optimistically realistic?
    No, this is how NFPs rope INTJs, with promises of unlikely great things. I'm old and wise enough to know that

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I dislike you.
    No you don't

  4. #464
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohd1122 View Post
    So...you think the person is incompetant?
    At least in some regard, yes.

  5. #465
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    I agree with your friend that one's success is not certain, but for me, focusing on future accomplishments is really focusing on how to get there. It is all calcuated risk. This is still heartening, though, because it engages my mind in what it does best, and actively involves me in things I can control, at least to some degree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I understand the need for realism, but is it realistic to always be looking at everything that can go wrong? I am not silly enough to believe that butterflies and glitter will solve the world's problems... but they can give the mind a mini-break from the harshness of life.

    I think you guys need a mini NF fairy to keep in your pocket to give you hugs or something so that you have these moments of silliness in between the seriousness of life.

    The correct answer is probably "it is neither, it is neutral."

    So, do you believe that optimism is always unrealistic, or is it possible that both optimism and realism can coexist in the same plane together at least some of the time?
    I agree with the highlighted. I was about to reply that realism is like a tool - it is neutral. It is the use to which it is put that can prompt value judgments. Optimism and pessimism both involve subjective attitudes to what one encounters in the world. Realism attemps simply to see it with accuracy, objectively, without such judgments. My personal optimism is directly dependent upon the likelihood that I can improve something.

    As for your pocket fairy, you might be surprised how effectively INTJs can escape from reality when we so choose. We just don't make the mistake (usually) of letting these recreations color our view of the "real" world we are attempting to navigate in and influence.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    (almost wrote I VD there... )
    [YOUTUBE="tK_jDA3qrUU"]Mmhmm[/YOUTUBE]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ego Reparate; Ob Me Non Deficiat.
    INTJ - RCOEI - sx/sp/so - Tritype: 683 (6w5-8w9-3w4) - True Neutral
    "Yeah, wisdom always chooses/These black eyes and these bruises"
    "Over the heartache that they say/Never completely goes away..."

  7. #467
    Boldly Gone Malice's Avatar
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    How often do you find your feelings get hurt in arguments?

    And if this is a rare occurrence, (rarer than say your partners/friends/etc.) do you feel some sense of entitlement that your 'hurt' is more important than their 'hurt' because it happens less often?
    a little less conversation, a little more action please
    . captain's blog.

  8. #468
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    I rarely feel hurt in an argument. I sometimes get a feeling of unease or disquiet, which usually turns out in retrospect to indicate that the topic was more important to me than I realized. I never consider my hurt more important than someone else's, but then I usually don't think theirs is as important as they think it is. Feeling hurt just seems so pointless. If I feel hurt, I consider it my own fault for letting the argument get to me, and not the fault of the other person, regardless of what they said. Moreover, I see no reason why the other person cannot approach hurt feelings the same way. (Of course I understand that they usually don't and do try to make allowances for it. It sure would be simpler that way, though.)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I rarely feel hurt in an argument. I sometimes get a feeling of unease or disquiet, which usually turns out in retrospect to indicate that the topic was more important to me than I realized. I never consider my hurt more important than someone else's, but then I usually don't think theirs is as important as they think it is. Feeling hurt just seems so pointless. If I feel hurt, I consider it my own fault for letting the argument get to me, and not the fault of the other person, regardless of what they said. Moreover, I see no reason why the other person cannot approach hurt feelings the same way. (Of course I understand that they usually don't and do try to make allowances for it. It sure would be simpler that way, though.)
    I agree about that but there is one thing I'd like to add...

    I have come to conclusion that someone who doesn't know me can not hurt me. I mean, I can impersonate any feedback or comments thinking either "ok, that's your opinion, you have right to that but I also have one of my own" or "ok, that may be true but that's also something I can't help". Therefore, I can only be hurt when I know that the hurting action was intentional and for that, I must know the other one well enough to know that he knows that what he/she is doing would hurt me.

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malice View Post
    And if this is a rare occurrence, (rarer than say your partners/friends/etc.) do you feel some sense of entitlement that your 'hurt' is more important than their 'hurt' because it happens less often?
    Nah. Hurty feelings seem like a weakness to me, and they're sort of irrelevant to the issue. Feelings are feelings, and I usually have to watch myself to make sure my blunt attitude doesn't step on any toes because other people care more about feelings and their condition. To me, they are a warning sign on occasion: as they are displeasing to experience (more annoying than anything else) I tend to avoid people who cause me emotional discomfort more than twice. Albeit, emotional discomfort to me is having a significant other cheat on you, so make of my personal scale as you will.

    Otherwise, I'd have to heartily agree with Coriolis. Arguments should never be taken personally. It's just a question of who got their facts straight and/or argued better.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ego Reparate; Ob Me Non Deficiat.
    INTJ - RCOEI - sx/sp/so - Tritype: 683 (6w5-8w9-3w4) - True Neutral
    "Yeah, wisdom always chooses/These black eyes and these bruises"
    "Over the heartache that they say/Never completely goes away..."

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