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Thread: Ask an INTJ

  1. #281
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1407027

    To arrive at a conclusion is more important and much easier than to remember the steps one has taken to get there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The difference between stating your opinion and explainig it is, for me, like the difference between evaluating a picture and giving an accurate picture description: while the conclusion is the same, the latter is much more laborious. Most people, however, need the description to see that the conclusion is correct.
    You're right about it being more work, and you're right that the conclusion is the most important. (Te bonding! ) But what about the bolded? Why choose to not give all the information if you're fully aware that most people need the description? From a Te dom perspective, that surprises me, because if you want someone to understand you, then you do whatever it takes to make them understand you. Is it that being fully understood isn't a priority?

    I would say that this is probably Ni vs. Ne, except that I know quite a few xNFJs who go out of their way to be completely and fully understood - much worse than me So I guess I'm still confused.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultimawepun View Post
    @EJCC

    Not all INTJ's, or introverts for that matter, are articulate. Not to mention that INTJ's are Ni dominant which makes it more difficult for them to express their thoughts. Even if they are able to express themselves, it does not necessarily mean that they'll be understood, which is why personally, I do not bother explaining to most of my acquaintances.
    Interesting. I wonder if this is just lack of faith in your ability to articulate what you're saying? When you try to articulate personal reasoning, does it always feel like you aren't quite doing your thought processes the justice they deserve? I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes; because with me, it often doesn't matter if the INTJ is articulate or not. All I really want is a valid reason. For example, with movies: even if the INTJ said "I hate this movie because the main character has ugly hair" - regardless of whether or not I agree, it's a reason, and it doesn't raise my hackles like "I hate it because it's stupid".
    EDIT: This also may be partly the reason why INTJ's seem close-minded. I can't speak for the behalf of all INTJ's, but I really am open-minded, but people seem to think otherwise because even if I understand their opinion, they can't understand mine.
    I think you're right; to me, anyways, INTJs can often come across as dismissive to any opinion that they disagree with, and then are so curt about it that I get this vibe from them as if they're saying "I hate it, end of story. Don't talk to me anymore about it because there's no point." How would you recommend that friends of INTJs deal with this miscommunication?
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  2. #282
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Why choose to not give all the information if you're fully aware that most people need the description? [...] Is it that being fully understood isn't a priority?
    The description is boring, unnerving, often ineffective, thus it is only given in detail when one really wants the other(s) to fully understand where the conclusion has come from. That is usually not that case; so hints have to suffice.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    From a Te dom perspective, that surprises me, because if you want someone to understand you, then you do whatever it takes to make them understand you.
    If your friends do not deign to explain themselves, then they might just not deem the issue important enough. Or they think they have given enough information to be understood by those who deserve to understand (people who use their brains, that is).

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I would say that this is probably Ni vs. Ne, except that I know quite a few xNFJs who go out of their way to be completely and fully understood - much worse than me So I guess I'm still confused.
    Perhaps NFJs care more about being understood.

  3. #283
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    I think you're right; to me, anyways, INTJs can often come across as dismissive to any opinion that they disagree with, and then are so curt about it that I get this vibe from them as if they're saying "I hate it, end of story. Don't talk to me anymore about it because there's no point." How would you recommend that friends of INTJs deal with this miscommunication?
    Well, does it have to be spoken? I mean if it's important to you to know what they feel that way, would an email or text work? Of course I try to articulate why I feel a certain way and what brought me to that conclusion but sometimes, depending on the situation, it's nearly impossible. That's where the alternative communication comes in and it works. At least for me. If they won't and they're being a doucher about it, you may have to accept it. Unless you are ok with interrogation and torture but I wouldn't recommend it.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  4. #284
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Well, does it have to be spoken? I mean if it's important to you to know what they feel that way, would an email or text work? Of course I try to articulate why I feel a certain way and what brought me to that conclusion but sometimes, depending on the situation, it's nearly impossible. That's where the alternative communication comes in and it works. At least for me. If they won't and they're being a doucher about it, you may have to accept it. Unless you are ok with interrogation and torture but I wouldn't recommend it.
    +1

    I store a lot of info and have a hard time recalling it at the right times, so sometimes I'll make blanket statements that I have a hard time providing reasons for when I'm put on the spot. If I can come back to it later and actually explain myself, I can craft a satisfactory response.

    (Which is why I love communicating on forums)
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I think you're right; to me, anyways, INTJs can often come across as dismissive to any opinion that they disagree with, and then are so curt about it that I get this vibe from them as if they're saying "I hate it, end of story. Don't talk to me anymore about it because there's no point." How would you recommend that friends of INTJs deal with this miscommunication?
    INTJs can act oddly on the spot. If you find we are exhibiting non-linear behaviour then give us some space (a day or two) rather than pushing the issue.

  6. #286
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Well, does it have to be spoken? I mean if it's important to you to know what they feel that way, would an email or text work? Of course I try to articulate why I feel a certain way and what brought me to that conclusion but sometimes, depending on the situation, it's nearly impossible. That's where the alternative communication comes in and it works. At least for me. If they won't and they're being a doucher about it, you may have to accept it. Unless you are ok with interrogation and torture but I wouldn't recommend it.
    That would be excellent - i.e. a written/typed/nonverbal response - because it definitely doesn't have to be spoken. The reply itself is what matters in the end. And that's great advice, to leave it alone if the only other option is interrogation... Generally the main time that I get frustrated with my INTJ friends doing what I described, is when I view it as not a particularly difficult thing to explain. For example, why you hated a movie. But I guess this is Si vs. Ni, with Ni having more of a "gut" response to the movie which requires introspection to interpret, and Si having a giant list of criteria which the movie didn't meet. Does that sound right?
    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    +1

    I store a lot of info and have a hard time recalling it at the right times, so sometimes I'll make blanket statements that I have a hard time providing reasons for when I'm put on the spot. If I can come back to it later and actually explain myself, I can craft a satisfactory response.

    (Which is why I love communicating on forums)
    Thank you for this I feel a lot better about it now. It makes me happy to know that it isn't that INTJs think that people aren't worth the effort; it's that you don't have instant recall on the spot - like you said. So, by saying "I hate it because it was stupid", an INTJ might be giving all the information that they are currently able to give; everything else is buried in the Ni. Right?

    (This is all so foreign to me. Fascinating stuff! )
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #287
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    That would be excellent - i.e. a written/typed/nonverbal response - because it definitely doesn't have to be spoken. The reply itself is what matters in the end. And that's great advice, to leave it alone if the only other option is interrogation... Generally the main time that I get frustrated with my INTJ friends doing what I described, is when I view it as not a particularly difficult thing to explain. For example, why you hated a movie. But I guess this is Si vs. Ni, with Ni having more of a "gut" response to the movie which requires introspection to interpret, and Si having a giant list of criteria which the movie didn't meet. Does that sound right?

    Thank you for this I feel a lot better about it now. It makes me happy to know that it isn't that INTJs think that people aren't worth the effort; it's that you don't have instant recall on the spot - like you said. So, by saying "I hate it because it was stupid", an INTJ might be giving all the information that they are currently able to give; everything else is buried in the Ni. Right?

    (This is all so foreign to me. Fascinating stuff! )
    Yes and Ni is a bitch. I do try to verbalize a reason for any decision I come to and there have been days where I say - hold that thought, go get my laptop and IM them. In the same room. It gives me the ability to a) make myself understood b) explain my reasoning in a manner free of emotion (on either side) and c) generally it has an excellent outcome. If we didn't care about telling you what we think or didn't think you were worth the effort, we wouldn't even bother with saying I hated the movie. We certainly feel people who are close to us are worth the effort but sometimes when I say things in my head I want to say to them it's like...this is going to make no sense to them or this is going to sound like I don't care. Or any of the 10 million other ways we can over analyze something.

    Ohhh one thing I did start saying was...I have no opinion at this time. I'm acknowledging the situation but I'm holding off on voicing anything until I can frame it in a better way.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  8. #288
    Senior Member Thisica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    What role does inferior Se play in your temperament. And also, how do you reconcile your allegiance to an NT type in general with your Intuition being so preponderous over Thinking.

    In short, how do you, as an NT treat the idea of yourself being so much more intuitive than analytical? Do you see this as potentially problematic, as I could imagine that you--as an NT probably want to have an analytical and dispassionate approach to life.
    I try to make sure that my intuition function doesn't operate on its own. Se keeps me connected to the actual world, by simple awareness of my current biological state and augments Te in reality-assurance. I am probably more analytical than intuitive by my science training Ni's there to keep things in perspective, Te's there to focus on that perspective and testing ideas against experience. To me, both work in tandem; they're practically what makes me tempted to think that's a good combination in the traits of a researcher

    Anyways, my intuition faculty can be overwhelming at times to my other functions, in particular Te and Fi. They get overloaded with data connections from Ni, which I try to handle by writing as much as I can of these connections, whether or not they make sense. It's only afterwards that the analysis can be done in earnest. I think it's a matter of not rushing to conclusions...and taking my time in sorting out these thoughts. However, I'm still learning to do this :workout:
    “To explain all nature is too difficult a task for any one man or even for any one age. 'Tis much better to do a little with certainty, & leave the rest for others that come after you, than to explain all things by conjecture without making sure of any thing.”—Statement from unpublished notes for the Preface to the Opticks (1704) by Newton.

    What do you think about me? And for the darker side, here.

  9. #289
    Senior Member Thisica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I am not an INTJ, though technically qualified to answer the question.

    I'd say yes to that. INTP-INTP would not work because of the lack of F influence in the relationship. Though the rest of the NTs should do well with their own type, especially the INTJ-INTJ as they are the most sensitive of the thinkers due to the influence of their tertiary Fi, as well as that it is being sharpened by Introverted Intuition.
    Are you suggesting that Ni infects the workings of the other cognitive functions of the INTJ? And if so, to what extent?
    “To explain all nature is too difficult a task for any one man or even for any one age. 'Tis much better to do a little with certainty, & leave the rest for others that come after you, than to explain all things by conjecture without making sure of any thing.”—Statement from unpublished notes for the Preface to the Opticks (1704) by Newton.

    What do you think about me? And for the darker side, here.

  10. #290
    Senior Member Thisica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnivera View Post
    Dear INTJs,

    How do you get your crazy ideas?

    Love,
    An ISTJ who has to walk around the park, or stare off into space, to get "inspired"
    I read. A lot. Of stuff. However random it may be.
    Then my brain goes into innate organisation mode, whilst I focus on other things, until an "ah hah!" moment arrives. This can happen anytime, so I keep a black book around.
    “To explain all nature is too difficult a task for any one man or even for any one age. 'Tis much better to do a little with certainty, & leave the rest for others that come after you, than to explain all things by conjecture without making sure of any thing.”—Statement from unpublished notes for the Preface to the Opticks (1704) by Newton.

    What do you think about me? And for the darker side, here.

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