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  1. #31
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    On top of what you mentioned, a relationship with him sounds toxic.

    Love requires acceptance, perhaps something he never learned to do, and probably doesn't know how to do for himself- hence how screwed up he was in the way he treated you..

    You're too much of a free-spirit and young soul for someone who has acted so callous/calculating as he has.

    I know as an idealist, there is a tendency to want to see things as what they could be instead of what they really are. Life lesson- know your vulnerabilities and do not disregard and make excuses for inconsistencies.. Don't doubt yourself. Despite MBTI, people are going to be people, and patterns of romance and behavior do not need to be 'talked out of' in order to sound convincing, because when someone really wants you they make themselves very explicit. Shame on him.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggieb View Post
    You are so right. I think I am more INFP and NFPs tend to put people on a pedestal? We know the flaws and issues are there but we focus on the good things. We accept people as they are and look for the good qualities in them so that they stay on the pedestal.

    I drove back that night, put on Adele but I didn't cry. I tried to make myself cry but failed. I almost did when she sang "Someone like you" lol...but seriously...I DO NOT WANT another like him.
    I am definitely guilty of putting people on pedestals. (Or peddle stools for those who know.)

    In contrast, INTJs are gifted with the ability to look past all of the surface goodness and into the dark realistic heart of who people are. (It's kind of annoying/awesome.)

    You definitely don't want someone like this guy but make sure to fully process your emotions as they come. I am not saying you are doing this, but I know for myself it's super easy to kick myself over mistakes made. When instead it is much better to look at the situation as an opportunity to learn. Some ideas for you in this could be to be more direct about your own needs/wants. If you don't want to get physically intimate with someone without an established relationship, then that needs to be stated. Any man, regardless of type, who is worth you will not mind this.

    The trick in the end is a bit of balance. I think us NFPs sometimes go too far in seeing only the good in others, and we need a bit of reality to temper that. However, we don't need to go fully in the other direction because that's just not us.

    If you haven't already decided, I would also suggest to not be friends with this man. He simply doesn't seem to respect you, for whatever reason, and holding on to any kind of a connection will only serve to cause you pain. Games are never ok.

    P.S. Here is a song suggestion that I love listening to when I am feeling angsty: (Ok, I can't really front, since I have an entire music library devoted to sad songs.)


  3. #33
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I do not imagine an INTJ would say those things lightly and those are really important things. It's possible he will realize that he screwed up somewhere down the line. Maybe there is a reason he's in his late 30s and hasn't found any ONE.

    On the "tests" - I wouldn't get hung up on those words. It's obviously a very hurtful and stupid thing to say but I doubt he meant for it to be hurtful. He probably does have a list of things he is looking for with some kind of importance attached to each and he described some of them to you in some of what you said above. It's not just an emotional decision - it's a rational decision and there are a set of criteria - things you're looking for which I suppose would need to be validated in some way. I'm sure that sounds horribly unromantic but it's kind of how it works for an INTJ in a decision like this. It's possible he is doing his best to make what he feels is the best decision for both him and you. I wouldn't jump to some of the earlier stated negative conclusions on his motivations.
    Highlander's right. Healthy INTJs rarely give out compliments or say those kinds of "serious" things lightly-- or to grease the wheels for some other stuff. I think there is a reason he's still searching, and one day he'll figure that out. You don't have to be involved in any way. And his expectation that you should be is both selfish and cruelly oblivious to your emotional state. Especially considering that you'd already admitted how you felt about him.

    INTJs aren't exactly the most socially-aware creatures, so I'm not that surprised that he blurted out something stupid/hurtful like that. I agree, he's a jerk, but I don't think he's as much of a jerk as everyone's making him out to be. I think a good part of the rationale behind his behavioral trends is that he's very, very confused about who he is and what he wants. Again, there's a reason he's still searching.

    Quote Originally Posted by kiddykat View Post
    Sounds like he knew exactly what he wanted, and knew exactly how to get it. J for jerkface.
    Not always. I don't think he really knew what he wanted consciously. Unconsciously, maybe deep down, he knew it wouldn't last and he wasn't making the right choice. But in my experience, healthy Js are very, very plain about what they want versus what they're getting. Innocent obfuscation, indecision, and polyamorous flirtation are things that exist primarily in the realm of P. This guy was a jerk, yes. But I don't think it was because he was a J.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggieb View Post
    But I am not mad nor upset at him anymore because that would mean i am holding a grudge and frankly....that's a waste of time and energy.

    He's tried to talk to me and I have been civil....but NO WAY we are gonna be BFFs.....he has shown that he's a taker and not a giver. Unless he proves that he can give back too, which he won't and I know this from the things he's said. He's so egotistical that he thinks that by spending time talking to me, opening up and sharing, he's meeting my needs and giving back. LOL.... He's so out of this world.
    This is a healthy way to approach the relationship. Cool civility is all he should expect from you. As Coriolis mentioned earlier, platonic friendships blossom from platonic seeds, not from broken romances. I'd submit that it's very, very difficult for two previously-romantically/sexually-entangled partners to maintain a platonic friendship with the same amount of depth that they had before. One of them is always going to want the increased deepness of a romantic commitment, whereas the other won't.

    And as to the second part... that's not so much egotism as it is INTJ personality. We rarely open up to anyone, hate discussing feelings, and prefer to keep things professional for the most part. The fact that he opened to you-- in his mind, at least-- IS a way of meeting needs. He's not matured enough to understand that he needs to meet his partner's emotional needs as well in order for the relationship to flower. Apologies for the extended plant metaphors.

    You're absolutely right to stay away from him. If he asks about why, just be open and frank with him about why you're being the way you are. It's perfectly fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by kiddykat View Post
    On top of what you mentioned, a relationship with him sounds toxic.

    Love requires acceptance, perhaps something he never learned to do, and probably doesn't know how to do for himself- hence how screwed up he was in the way he treated you..

    You're too much of a free-spirit and young soul for someone who has acted so callous/calculating as he has.

    I know as an idealist, there is a tendency to want to see things as what they could be instead of what they really are. Life lesson- know your vulnerabilities and do not disregard and make excuses for inconsistencies.. Don't doubt yourself. Despite MBTI, people are going to be people, and patterns of romance and behavior do not need to be 'talked out of' in order to sound convincing, because when someone really wants you they make themselves very explicit. Shame on him.
    Spot-on advice here.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ego Reparate; Ob Me Non Deficiat.
    INTJ - RCOEI - sx/sp/so - Tritype: 683 (6w5-8w9-3w4) - True Neutral
    "Yeah, wisdom always chooses/These black eyes and these bruises"
    "Over the heartache that they say/Never completely goes away..."

  4. #34
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggieb View Post
    Also, in the past, when he said things like "I've never had such long, intellectual, emotional chats with anyone", "you've made me opened up like no one else has" I had thought that he was saying thank you but no. He would get mad at me for failing to recognize that he's actually paying me a compliment! Haha...did someone mention "personality deficit"? (edited to add: Oops...I remember that this IS in fact an INTJ trait. They think just by spending their time on you, texting, talking, they are doing you a favor...even though most of the time we were going through his shit.)
    [Warning: type (over)generalizations ahead.]

    INTJs tend to say things like the highlighted only if they are true, and the other person has made a huge and positive impression on them. I can count on one hand the people to whom I have said similar things. If the speaker does not really mean it, the obvious alternative is that it is a direct attempt at manipulation through deceit. INTJs are perfectly capable of that, in which case, you have a great example of an INTJ being a jerk.

    We don't think we are doing you a favor by giving you our time and attention (unless you have asked for our help), but we do consider it a loud declaration of how much we care about you and value you. Yes, other types might consider that an inadequate substitute for just coming right out and saying so, and we can work on being more vocal, though that will customarily look more like the highlighted comments. This much is just part of who and how we are, given how much we value our privacy, alone time, and generally busying ourselves with ideas and things over people. If we set that aside for you, it really is a big deal. Ignoring or abusing that is a big fail, without good justification.

    Quote Originally Posted by kiddykat View Post
    You're too much of a free-spirit and young soul for someone who has acted so callous/calculating as he has.
    Being callous and calculating is not uncommon for INTJs either. The difference between the jerks and the decent ones is that the latter understand this part of their nature, and really work to curb it wrt close friends and SOs, and make amends when we slip up.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #35
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggieb View Post
    I understand what you're saying and I totally agree this is what he's thinking.

    I think he truly meant what he said at that time. But I also think that these things have little value to him on the whole scheme of things in his life.

    But it doesn't change the fact that I felt used. He had to use my body to validate that he has no feelings for me. How does that make me feel? I am the cause of my own inadequacy to fulfill his needs and it had to be proven by "me".

    I don't want to go into explicit details....but what he did that night showed he had no respect for women. I knew he had gotten his answer halfway and he could have stopped. But he went on, did things (actions censored) purely for his own pleasure.

    It's funny -- this *just* happened to me, too, and I had a total melt-down over a 24-hour period, to the point that I was driven to ask for help (huge, for me), slept almost all day yesterday, am back to work today still tired and a little fragile, and still covered in hives. I went ape-shit. "He had to use my body to validate that he has no feelings for me." And then he wants to be friends.

    Well. But he did. And he does.

    You just have to get over it, I'm afraid. If it means that much to you, don't let anybody have it till you've heard and seen what you need to hear and see beforehand.

    For me, the test of whether I wanted to be friends with this person is how did he handle it when he saw the tip of the iceberg of my meltdown and when I let him understand that I was upset. My person came through and was a man for me and I give him props for it.

    There were misunderstandings, in my case. I did hear what I wanted to hear and ignore what I didn't want to hear; he did say a couple of conflicting things to me so it's not surprising I had it wrong. And you know what? The sex wasn't great for me either. I just saw potential and it had its moments, fleeting though they were, I caught clear glimpses and flashes of what I want, and that made me off the hook crazy for more. But ... he's decided to go with someone else, and there's nothing I can do about that.

    Realize that you're jonesing for the thing you thought you saw. You didn't actually see it. You just thought you might eventually see it.

    Also consider that this guy is perhaps a harbinger. He opened you up and now your senses are raw and attuned. So take that and use it.

    He may turn out to be a friend after all. He may not. Either way, it's ok. You don't have to feel raped about it. You have a choice in how you frame this. Rise to it and frame it well for yourself and use it to propel you into where you want to be. And play a little harder. You're playing awfully soft, do you understand what I mean? SMACK the ball, RUN, get your speed up, say yes, say no. Don't sit around typing and sit around listening. Don't put time in and then resent it, and don't have sex until you know you're in good hands, or unless it's purely recreational for you both.

    Ok, back up on the horse. You're ok. You really are. Go get what you want now.

  6. #36
    Junior Member Aggieb's Avatar
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    HELP! What's wrong with me? I really have the urge to text and say hi. I am really a doormat aren't I?

    I really don't mind being platonic. But perhaps the word friends/ bffs means more to me than him. It's not something I take lightly. I also need to know I can trust him as a friend. I don't think he's someone I could count on if I am in need. So I need him to show me that he still values me as much as he said he did. I am not feeling it. He might have meant all he said but as I mentioned, it's also no big deal to him if we aren't. On the grand scheme of things, it's makes no difference if I am there or not in his life. That's the cold reality in the life of an INTJ, I think? So why do I still want to be there?

  7. #37
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggieb View Post
    HELP! What's wrong with me? I really have the urge to text and say hi. I am really a doormat aren't I?

    I really don't mind being platonic. But perhaps the word friends/ bffs means more to me than him. It's not something I take lightly. I also need to know I can trust him as a friend. I don't think he's someone I could count on if I am in need. So I need him to show me that he still values me as much as he said he did. I am not feeling it. He might have meant all he said but as I mentioned, it's also no big deal to him if we aren't. On the grand scheme of things, it's makes no difference if I am there or not in his life. That's the cold reality in the life of an INTJ, I think? So why do I still want to be there?
    I wouldn't say you are a doormat, it's just that emotions can hold their sway for awhile and are hard to untangle from them.

    I think it is natural that when someone hurts us, we can gravitate towards them out of some sense that since they are the ones to cause the pain... that they can make it go away. However, I think that just proves to add to the pain instead.

    It doesn't really matter what type someone is, there are commonalities between how we show respect for one another. From what I have read, this guy doesn't seem to have done any of those actions to prove himself in that way to you.

    So it comes down to what is your own inner motivation and are you aware of it enough? Are you seeking him out in case he changes his mind? Are you wanting some kind of further closure?

    People don't do things without some kind of payoff. If you are doing something that can cause harm, then there has to be a reason for it. Is a desire to continue communicating with him born out of adding to evidence of worthlessness or low self esteem?

    I know that's a lot of questions, and you aren't expected to answer any of them to me. I just wanted to get your inner monologue ball rolling here.

    Instead of messaging him, I would suggest taking him out of your phone and instead call a caring friend who can be supportive of you right now.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggieb View Post
    HELP! What's wrong with me? I really have the urge to text and say hi. I am really a doormat aren't I?
    Print this out and tape it to your mirror:

    what he did that night showed he had no respect for women.
    If that doesn't deter you, I don't know what will.

  9. #39
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggieb View Post
    You are so right. I think I am more INFP and NFPs tend to put people on a pedestal? We know the flaws and issues are there but we focus on the good things. We accept people as they are and look for the good qualities in them so that they stay on the pedestal.

    I drove back that night, put on Adele but I didn't cry. I tried to make myself cry but failed. I almost did when she sang "Someone like you" lol...but seriously...I DO NOT WANT another like him.
    I don't know. I'm an INTP and sometimes do catch myself focusing on "what could be" rather than "what is". It doesn't happen often with people but I have done it.

    The situation sucks but I'm glad that you KNOW and you can move on. It's painful to be used--I know--but it's better to know what the hell is going on so you can be free to make a choice. You're better than me though...that shit he pulled...I would have left with his balls hanging from my belt.

    Ah...wait. You want to text? You're not a doormat but you are attached. And when you're separated from your attached one, it hurts. Unfortunately, sometimes attachments aren't a good thing. The pain of loss doesn't mean it was wrong to let go and move on; it just means it hurts to loose someone you were attached to. If you call, text, etc., you're going to be prolonging the steps you need to let the attachment die. It seldom works out well when the attempt is made. Sometimes, things just need to die no matter how much it hurts.

    I think you deserve better than this and the sooner you let it go, the faster better things can come to you.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I had that, and it was part of what sent me really into orbit instead of just being a little annoyed -- don't laugh but I had never texted before and never become attached to my phone -- all of a sudden I found myself panicked if the phone was not onhand, if I forgot where I put it, if the charge was low -- I found myself something I absolutely personaly despise -- a person attached to a phone. There's something about the activity itself that's addictive. That was very hard to walk away from. He had been texting me regularly for about 15 days and then it just stopped. I kept picking the phone up and shaking it, turning it off and turning it back on, waiting for the text, and being more and more puzzled and upset to see nothing. That he managed to hook me PISSED ME OFF because it took months before I'd give him my phone number just for that reason -- I didn't want him to use it as a weapon to disappoint me with, and dammit, there I sat, profoundly disappointed and hooked like an animal. I was furious with myself.

    I think it just has to do with being addicted to the stimulation -- can you get anyone else to help you? Is there a friend who can text you a bit to help you both feel satisfied and wean yourself away from it? If not, and if your mind doesn't work like this (where you can use an exercise to help you), you may very well poke it with a stick a few times to see if you can get any more play. Here's the trick of that -- realize what you're doing -- it's not because you want to be abused by someone who does not respect you. It's because you've become addicted to the little surprise of a text you can respond to. Treat it like an addiction and do whatever you do to discipline yourself away from a bad thing you've become attached to. Cold turkey it or step down with a friend's help or whatever. Don't let it run destructive scripts on your head, though. It took me about five days to stop feeling the loss acutely and I estimate it will be another week or two before I stop hoping for a text. Point your head in the direction of understanding what happened and realizing it's over, that you will still want it, but it won't help you to pursue it, and sit on your hands till the feeling passes.

    Also that stuff he said? Forget it. Let it go.

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