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  1. #11
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    I believe in welfare because it gives individuals the power to pursue their own agendas without having to be somebody's slave or risk jail time.

    I used to be pro life because I believed in the inherent value of human life.

    I believe that the typical public school is run like too much of a shit hole to properly train the mind or coerce its students into their societal roles.
    wails from the crypt.

  2. #12
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    The premise is predetermined idea?

    could you possibly give an example of how an NTP would have reasoned?
    wails from the crypt.

  3. #13
    Senior Member pv255's Avatar
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    In my opinion, a typical NTP will conclude with an idea, and the premise will be an observation. For instance, I believe that one of many reasons why welfare exist is to deter a certain portion of society to commit crimes. This can be observed by correlating the timing of welfare checks and crime rates. This can be observed in the data provided in the paper below.
    http://www.people.hbs.edu/ffoley/Crime.pdf

  4. #14
    Senior Member pv255's Avatar
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    Thoughts?

  5. #15
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    yeah INTPs do tend to cite data wayyy more than I do
    wails from the crypt.

  6. #16
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    I take a more mechanical approach to describing things instead of showing the effects, I break it down into interactions of principles.
    wails from the crypt.

  7. #17
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    in the end those principles do need to reflect something real though so data can (and often does) disprove me, but it's rarely part of my thought process at all.
    wails from the crypt.

  8. #18
    Senior Member pv255's Avatar
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    Interesting. I hope this cleared things up for you.

  9. #19
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    I believe that the hierarchical structure of society puts authority in the hands of those who have the attributes necessary to seize power instead of in the hands of those who could best utilize the tools that authority bestows. Because of this I put no faith in society as a whole and endeavour to interact with people as individually as possible. I always try to separate people from the immaterial beliefs that bind and enslave them (indirectly).

    I see more INTP in that post than ENTJ. Your post attacks hierarchical structure and the distributions of power. You demonstrate a lack of optimism and faith in the future. Your solution to what you see to be a problem is more inwardly focused opposed to projected outward. You disagree with power distribution so you change your behavior to offset what you find offensive instead of galvanizing others to enact change and offset the offense. That would make sense coming from an INTP because they don't normally seek to control or lead other people. Actually I've read many different articles post ect on th ENTJ. From what I've read ENTJ's are almost always described as natural born leaders. That would mean they would be among the people who naturally posses the attributes to seize power. The hierarchical structure of society would then affirm their authority regardless of their ability to best utilize the tools that authority bestows according to your critique. Following that train of thought you seem to be attacking certain strengths of the ENTJ type itself. My dad is an ENTJ so I've read up on the type quite a bit. You avatar also seems a but INTP-ish rebellious lack of social conformity. I can't see an ENTJ using a dirty seemingly homeless person to represent themselves. Feel free to correct me if my assessment is wrong. You know yourself a lot better than I do this simply my observation.
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  10. #20
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    I disagree that ENTJs naturally possess the attributes to seize power as those attributes are financial and social (not so much to do with type, although some ENTJs are DRIVEN to seize power). I think ENTJs as "natural born leaders" with foresight and clear reasoning are one of the types better suited to use the tools of authority.


    I am hopeless regarding the possibility of using the institution to battle society in a meaningful way, not quite decided yet if I am hopeless on the general project of changing things.

    Diogenes isn't hopeless he just reimagines the ideal man. He was happy. Was he an ENTJ? I don't know because none of his texts survived, but he did have followers.

    The problem I have is pretty well described now by both of your responses. In the context of society as it stands, I play the role generally attributed to an INTP personality, however I feel that this role is being played IN REACTION to the world and not because of who I am essentially. If I could pick myself up with God's hand and place myself somewhere in society I don't think I would put myself in a lab, and I hope I wouldn't put myself here in my apartment on welfare, but maybe I would return here after trying out the more ENTJ positions, who can say?!
    wails from the crypt.

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