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Thread: Nihilism

  1. #21
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I used to struggle with this a lot actualy, especially in college. I think life is all about slowly overcoming this by having good habits that keep your affective state high, improve yourself, and give back to others. It's the only thing that I have come across that consistently combats nihilism. Best of luck to you
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #22
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    This is why I say it is misunderstood.

    It is the belief that objectivity does actually exist. It is only believing in the verifiable. Meaning is only assigned to that which can be naturally explained, not simply because humans find value in them.

    Ahh. But that is assuming humans are machines then.

    Isn't it?
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Ahh. But that is assuming humans are machines then.

    Isn't it?
    Emotions can be explained (i.e. John gets punched in the face and is therefore angry at Peter), so they can have meaning. I don't believe it requires humans to be machines.

  4. #24
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    Emotions can be explained (i.e. John gets punched in the face and is therefore angry at Peter), so they can have meaning. I don't believe it requires humans to be machines.
    If we can only believe what we know, and that is based on objective fact or rationale, then not only will we not know enough to function at full capacity, but then we have no need of faith at all.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  5. #25
    Junior Member xennui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    Then, my friend, what does how we were programmed matter? Who cares if nature has made us be in a certain way? It's not like what nature does to us really means anything. If I feel like killing somebody, I might as well do it - it won't matter in the end.
    > Then, my friend, what does how we were programmed matter?

    Universally, it doesn't. It doesn't matter how ants function, or what blue makes one feel like, unless one has a need to know, and then it's only a subjective meaning. How we're programmed only matters if you're asking the question.

    > Who cares if nature has made us be in a certain way?

    Do you mean on a personal level? I, personally 'care' if you can call it that, though curiosity is more accurate-- because I haven't been very successful with certain aspects of interacting with people and society and, seeing a pattern in it and myself, seek to better understand to better navigate. Why? Because it's all a very complicated outgrowth of the basic need to eat, reproduce and have a safe place to sleep. My mode of accomplishing "suvival and thriving" has always been to take things apart, understand them and improve, it is in me to question.
    The motivation for the, say, INFJ, is because their role is of the social/spiritual protector, that is the pattern of their DNA/personality/social-role and it is their purpose to both define and search for the greater good. I don't envy INFJ's that, nor do they envy me my cold, emotionless, meaningless existence. That's why I actually deleted my post but you replied before I did--too quick for me! I decided I didn't want to get in to a tangle with other peoples' meanings. Also, I went back and re-read the posts especially what AphroditegoneAwry said,

    :: NTs can be blunt and debate topics and that is welcomed, but that NFs are 'attacking' or slandering or whatever when I do.

    ...I see her point and decided to re-think my shit before I went off on an asshole INTJ tirade. <sigh>... good thing you included quote, I guess


    > It's not like what nature does to us really means anything.

    What do you mean by "what nature does to us?"


    > If I feel like killing somebody, I might as well do it - it won't matter in the end.

    Not matter to whom? It may matter to those who knew you, and your victim, and will cause a ripple of inconvenience to everyone attached to those lives, so in that sense it will matter to those people to varying levels. Within the grand scheme of things, a generation from now, no, it won't matter. Just an insignificant statistic from the past.

    Of course, to you it will matter, you'll;
    1. go to prison for a long time. It will hurt.
    2. Your social position will be forever damaged, and social position is very coded in to our social monkey brains. That's what having a conscience is all about.
    3. After prison our options for good food / safety / breeding will be severely compromised, your life will suck.

    So you don't senselessly murder. Even if you could get away with it, you're not going to unless the sum of your anguish outweighs your control over the situation and yourself. Unless you have a brain disorder or some apparent justification, it's just not in your nature. You may feel like murdering, but if you picture yourself standing over a someone's bullet-shattered face, their breath gurgling up through strips of torn flesh and cartilage, painting the floor red as they spasm about in catonic pain... eh, your brain is wired for empathy, that's the meaning of why you can't go there.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    If we can only believe what we know, and that is based on objective fact or rationale, then not only will we not know enough to function at full capacity, but then we have no need of faith at all.
    Nihilism does not require you to remove abduction, and does not say we cannot learn more about ourselves and our capabilities; it's limiting what you consider, and removing what you may have considered, truth. It simply asks for proof.

  7. #27
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I wonder at the point of moral nihilism.

    Why do people need something to be inherent in order to respect and enjoy it?

    Of course morals are an abstract concept, how stupid. It doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with that. To me it is easy to hold that while morals are merely a fragile shell of our own construction, at the same time it's important to remember why we built it in the first place.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #28
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    I struggle daily (and have for some time) with existential nihilism which isn't a good thing at all. Without some mystical purpose to my life I tend to just not bother with anything at all. After all what's the point in striving if it all comes to nothing in the end. What do I care if I leave behind a plaque on a slab of marble or just compost? When I start thinking like this I get into a downward spiral of apathy. I believe that beliefs (religion, science, morals etc), no matter how flawed the logic, exist just to stop people from throwing themselves off the nearest cliff. Because that's what we'd all do if we started thinking life had no meaning or purpose at all.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    Hmm...there seems to be more types of nihilism. It seems that some go along the lines of what you say, and others belong to what I was thinking of - namely, objects exist, but they have no intrinsic value.

    Ok, fine, I give you the victory; however, you must admit that it did sound a bit like relativism.
    Hmm? For one, I'm not trying to win anything here, just trying to have a discussion on a topic that interests me Having no value and having no meaning are more or less the same thing. For the nihilist to say "it is all meaningless" or "there is no intrinsic value" would need to say that objective meaning or value does not exist or at best it iself is meaningless. There is cross over with relativism however the nihilist would declare the relatives he works with as meaningless or without value as well, which is what I do whilst the relativist would need only declare that none is the most important and not that they are all without value. Or at least from what I recall.

  10. #30
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    Nihilism does not require you to remove abduction, and does not say we cannot learn more about ourselves and our capabilities; it's limiting what you consider, and removing what you may have considered, truth. It simply asks for proof.
    Sounds like it demands proof, by what you've said previously.


    Good luck to it. I can pretty much prove nothing. It seems pretty weak, therefore.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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