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Thread: Nihilism

  1. #11
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COLORATURA View Post
    I don't believe much CAN be proven. That is my problem. If it can't be, how can you for sure say it exists?
    Things aren't always what they appear to be. How do I not know that everything I THINK I know isn't in fact, not? I question EVERYTHING. Even my own experiences & what I think I know.

    I struggle with questions like this constantly.

    Just because we have a definition of "meaning," does that mean it exists? I can make up a magical fairyland in a story tomorrow and call it Mootermoofeyland. If it were to become popular, everyone would know what Mootermoofeyland was, but it still wouldn't exist. Or would it?
    Poor INTP; Ti-dom must be a curse.

    Now, I'm not saying the things we give value to and call "good" are always so; most of the time, I find it to be useless noise. The thing is, you're questioning the particulars: "Does X carry meaning?" It might or it might not; so, what is meaning? To say that something doesn't carry meaning means that this "meaning" exists, but not in that particular.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  2. #12
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    And I was in no way making a personal attack. I think you misunderstand what I said. I was simply responding to you.

    I think......that there is a discrimination going on with Type C that males or NTs can be blunt and debate topics and that is welcomed, but that NFs are 'attacking' or slandering or whatever when I do.

    There is a double standard here and I'm sick of it.

    I will research what Schopenhauer meant further. But it doesn't really matter to me what he meant. I meant what I meant anyway.
    I apologize, then; I by no means meant to play on stereotypes. I had fully misunderstood your statements when you said "my perspective is skewed". Please, do forgive me.

    By the way, I'm still not sure what type I am; I think I might be INFP, so maybe my Fi took your comments to be personal attacks.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  3. #13
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    I suffer from the same issues COLORATURA experiences and am myself a nihilist. What is meaning? What is truth? My perception is hideous limited, I can only see a limited wavelength of light and cannot smell or hear like a dog. How do I feel certain in what I perceive and how do I be anything other than sceptical of others who claim to see it all? Is it all just different stages of ignorance where we do not even know whether what we are ignorant of has any meaning at all? Is there any meaning or purpose at all to anything, does "meaning" or "purpose" possess any meaning or purpose either. I do believe that what I see exists however, but only in the context it is presented; a context which I do not believe possesses any point, or value. I believe matter and energy exists and is in the flat bubble we call the universe, never being created, destroyed or escaping and existing that way until it no longer does, pointless the entire time. We could discover everything about the universe, the entire range of its laws, the sums of its particles but will we ever find objective meaning? It's really quite fascinating to think about, it has been five years since stumbling onto existentialism and nihilism and I am very comfortable with the "dark" thoughts it creates.

    I do however lapse into a state of pseudo-existentialism due to personal values presented to me through my Fi. I cannot stay ignorant of them and find myself seeing them as meaningful to me, an unjustified preference over the myriad of other meaningless concepts and constructs that exist in this world. This is a meaning I cannot forsake but it is one I can understand to be limited only to myself and one which is born out of brain chemistry. A conjurer's trick in a way. I see any moral views I hold to be important only to me, to have no worth beyond the abstractions made from what I want and what the universe creates. This is how I see all morality and see myself. Just a clusterfuck gestalt of a million factors coming together, maybe like a series of brain neurons lighting up on a computer screen and being mistaken for a piece of art.

    The only problem is that I (and I believe others) start seeing nihilism as the truth to things, yet how can the positions asserting there are no truths assert this as a truth?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    It just means the study or belief in nothingness. Not even black holes are nothingness. Much less this colorful and vibrant world we live in. If it were nothingness we would not conceive of anything. Because all would be void and naught. Or we would have as many negations as posations (?antonym if anyone knows it plz) which would cancel everything out.

    But we do not. We have a skewing toward wanting good and wanting love. Therefore life does have meaning, whether we feel that or not.
    This is why I say it is misunderstood.

    It is the belief that objectivity does actually exist. It is only believing in the verifiable. Meaning is only assigned to that which can be naturally explained, not simply because humans find value in them.

  5. #15
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    The only problem is that I (and I believe others) start seeing nihilism as the truth to things, yet how can the positions asserting there are no truths assert this as a truth?
    That sounds more like relativism than nihilism (per se).
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    That sounds more like relativism than nihilism (per se).
    I don't think so. Nihilism asserts there are no truths and thus everything is meaningless. Yet it asserts that itself is truth as an unfortunate side effect. It's a well known dilemma in the theory. Perhaps an issue with my wording is at fault.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I don't think so. Nihilism asserts there are no truths and thus everything is meaningless. Yet it asserts that itself is truth as an unfortunate side effect. It's a well known dilemma in the theory. Perhaps an issue with my wording is at fault.
    Hmm...there seems to be more types of nihilism. It seems that some go along the lines of what you say, and others belong to what I was thinking of - namely, objects exist, but they have no intrinsic value.

    Ok, fine, I give you the victory; however, you must admit that it did sound a bit like relativism.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by xennui View Post
    I see it this way; the system looks wonderful and made for us because we're parts of the system. What's "Good" is what we expect, what works for us, what's "Bad" is what doesn't. (Yeah, moral nihilism). But we're not just, as individuals, products of millions of years of evolution--we've also evolved within this society. You, as an individual are not made to rape/pillage/murder, and I don't mean made-by-god. You were born w/ all these mirror neurons that bind you to those around you, your evolutionary function is to be a part of society as much as a lion's is to be part of a pride and eat buffalo. You were born as an INTP as much as a worker bee was born to forage. Worker bee ain't gonna rape the queen and you simply aren't built to be a psychopath, even if you are "losing your religion."
    Ultimately embracing that 'existance' is all just flow of cause and effect without thunderous judgement coming down from on high, or magical energies connecting us to the inevitable Astral Paradise on Alpha Centauri, means you can just resume what you were doing w/o all the bullshit.
    Then, my friend, what does how we were programmed matter? Who cares if nature has made us be in a certain way? It's not like what nature does to us really means anything. If I feel like killing somebody, I might as well do it - it won't matter in the end.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  9. #19
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    If you have a nihilism problem, then existentialism might help. Life may have no inherent meaning, but we can choose to give it meaning.

  10. #20
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    Experiments may or may not be done correctly, but the important difference is that they are done at all.

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