User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 23

  1. #11
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I have to admit I didn't understand it either.

    Reality is the only truth - Aristotle.
    Define reality and how to see it
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    MBTI
    xxTP
    Posts
    1,261

    Default

    ^^^ A good place to start:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

  3. #13
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    6w7
    Posts
    3,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Objective argument vs. objective fact. That sounds... Odd. Can I get an example of one and the other...?
    Yes, let's look at this argument between the user Halla and I: in this particular thread entitled, "SP's and delayed gratification", I used objective facts to argue and he just umm...didn't. Read the thread to understand what I'm talking about....

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ification.html

  4. #14
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default

    I use facts when I'm educated on a topic, but truthfully, I'm a fucking illitirit moron, so I have to default to either:
    1) shutting the fuck up
    2) looking for flaws in logic or principles that are so broad they lead to outrageous consequences
    3) tracing arguments back to fundamental values, and then arguing passionately for one set of values

    I've also noticed as I've gotten older that (1) the person who can marshal the facts better usually wins and (2) the facts are usually pointless, because there are enough facts to build a case either way, and the difference does come down to differences in values

  5. #15
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 so/sp
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    2,484

    Default

    Approximated objective facts that may or may not actually exist yet, yes

  6. #16
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Does beer turn yellow when you pee in the bottle ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #17
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    I think the difference is in application. TPs and FJs tend to utilize facts to demonstrate an underlying system; TJs and FPs tend to utilize facts to demonstrate shared external parameters. One miscommunication that can occur is when the TP/FJ sees their underlying system as logically precise, with all the kinks worked out, but the TJ/FP does not see how it matches up to the situation at hand. You end up with a lovely system, but it's not applicable. Or, alternatively, the TJ/FP sees their understanding of the external parameters as efficient, but the TP sees how the logic breaks down once you cross-contextualize.

    As a perhaps-poor but convenient example, TP father just walked into the room and suggested we use the daylight while it's around, and opened the blinds. TP father is very picky-picky about the blinds - he wants them open during the day; closed while the TV is on; closed at night. This all makes sense. However, sometimes I just am tired and want less light. This bothers TP father, who feels like it doesn't make sense to have the blinds closed during the day. On some level, he is right. I do have a bedroom that is available for sleeping, it has less light, and if someone else wanted to use the den, they could. But on the Te level, if what I want is less light, the most expedient thing is to close the blinds. So you can see how TP father has a logical system, but it doesn't match up to what would be most effective for me. Or you could equally say that I'm being a pain by not just using different rooms they way they're meant to be used, creating unnecessary conflict through ad-hoc usage.

    Probably the best way to differentiate TJ versus TP and FJ versus FP is to ask yourself whether you are more concerned with external efficiency or more concerned with internal validity. J seeks what works; P seeks the universal ideal.

  8. #18
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #19
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    6w7
    Posts
    3,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think the difference is in application. TPs and FJs tend to utilize facts to demonstrate an underlying system; TJs and FPs tend to utilize facts to demonstrate shared external parameters. One miscommunication that can occur is when the TP/FJ sees their underlying system as logically precise, with all the kinks worked out, but the TJ/FP does not see how it matches up to the situation at hand. You end up with a lovely system, but it's not applicable. Or, alternatively, the TJ/FP sees their understanding of the external parameters as efficient, but the TP sees how the logic breaks down once you cross-contextualize.

    As a perhaps-poor but convenient example, TP father just walked into the room and suggested we use the daylight while it's around, and opened the blinds. TP father is very picky-picky about the blinds - he wants them open during the day; closed while the TV is on; closed at night. This all makes sense. However, sometimes I just am tired and want less light. This bothers TP father, who feels like it doesn't make sense to have the blinds closed during the day. On some level, he is right. I do have a bedroom that is available for sleeping, it has less light, and if someone else wanted to use the den, they could. But on the Te level, if what I want is less light, the most expedient thing is to close the blinds. So you can see how TP father has a logical system, but it doesn't match up to what would be most effective for me. Or you could equally say that I'm being a pain by not just using different rooms they way they're meant to be used, creating unnecessary conflict through ad-hoc usage.

    Probably the best way to differentiate TJ versus TP and FJ versus FP is to ask yourself whether you are more concerned with external efficiency or more concerned with internal validity. J seeks what works; P seeks the universal ideal.
    Well, that's my problem: I have all of these crazy ideas, but it's like I need to go out in the external world and confirm them with research and facts. A lot of times though, I don't give a shit what the facts say, and I just know that my ideas are true. I think that Ti is one of the most difficult functions to identify.

  10. #20
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Well, that's my problem: I have all of these crazy ideas, but it's like I need to go out in the external world and confirm them with research and facts. A lot of times though, I don't give a shit what the facts say, and I just know that my ideas are true. I think that Ti is one of the most difficult functions to identify.
    I guess it usually seems pretty clear to me because I'm so used to living with two Ti-doms!

    To me it always seems about internally-logical systems. Like how you organize your CD collection, or what the house temperature should be, or what the best speed to drive at is, or how best to approach a problem, or anything that requires a determination of logical priority to make an idealized system. And I can tell it's different from Te because Ti seeks the system that is "ultimately" right, not what is most expedient. Keirsey might call NFs idealists but I think Ti is a very idealistic function. It's like you said, you know your ideas are [internally] right/logical so the external parameters aren't as important to you. It's the same with Fi, sometimes you know your feelings are internally valid/ethical so the external reaction or implications of acting on or expressing those feelings aren't as important to you.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] ENFPs - Do you feel the need to constantly (and suddenly) move?
    By Malkavia in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-05-2013, 12:52 PM
  2. [Inst] Feeling the need to preserve ones beauty: Is this an Sx/SP and Sp/Sx thing?
    By The Great One in forum Instinctual Subtypes
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 12-01-2012, 05:47 AM
  3. [ENFJ] I feel the NEED to help others
    By georgie777 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-30-2012, 08:06 AM
  4. [MBTItm] Do You Ever Feel the Pageant of Life Has Poor Storylines?
    By SquirrelTao in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-31-2008, 10:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO