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  1. #1
    Senior Member Harlow_Jem's Avatar
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    Default The Fountainhead/Atlas Shrugged/Ayn Rand's Objectivism and INTJ's

    I have never in my life read anything that I've found as important and amazing as The Fountainhead (just started Atlas Shrugged). The fictional world she's created is the INTJ's ideal; Howard Roark is the INTJ's ideal of man. She defines the dissent that the INTJ feels at the very core about the universe. The relationship between Roark and Dominique is what I would call real love even though other types would just call it some fucked up, weird version of a relationship. Her ideas are not eye/mind-opening but an affirmation that everything that I've felt but could not define is real not only to me but that there are others who feel and think the same.

    Obviously, I don't completely agree with all her points of Objectivism but It's what I have lived with and for my whole life whether I'd realized it or not.

    What do you guys think of her philosophy of Objectivism?

    "I have no need for good souls; an accomplice is what I want"--Sartre


    psychic changes are born in your heart, entertain.

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harlow_Jem View Post
    What do you guys think of her philosophy of Objectivism?


    She takes valid Fi ideals and turns them into something very, very wrong.

  3. #3
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    She's quaint.

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    Well Howard Roark is the easy one to type. What is Peter Keating? I'm sure he should remind all you intjs of someone you all hold dear in your hearts. I hope Toohey isn't enfpish in your minds. The strange thing I found about her novels is that she goes on such long rants, which is uncharacteristic in the ones I know.

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  6. #6
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    By the time I finished Atlas Shrugged, I wanted to shoot myself... even when Dagny Taggart lands up in John Galt's magical little paradise...

    Essentially... Ayn Rand believes everything has objective value... if it exists, we can value it, $ and all... emotions, relationships, etc. Her epistemology has dozens of statements which she asserts are self-evident, but aren't... she cannot admit the circularity of her arguments, something which postmodernist thinkers are more than willing to do... in other words, if I met Ayn Rand I would probably find her insufferable, which a lot of people did.

    I don't enjoy her vision of the world at all, a world where listening to a concerto has to inspire feelings of o'erleaping ambition and not simply joy for joy's sake...
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

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  7. #7
    heart on fire
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    The relationship between Roark and Dominique is what I would call real love even though other types would just call it some f'd up, weird version of a relationship.
    Yes, very strange love. The Passion of Ayn Rand was entertaining however.

  8. #8
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I haven't read the stuff before but I'm smart enough to know that things that look good on paper many times don't translate well into reality.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #9
    Senior Member SquirrelTao's Avatar
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    I love both The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged as novels of ideas (ideas which I don't wholly agree with), though I see flaws in both novels. For one thing, Rand gives her characters long speeches in which they are mouthpieces for Objectivism. Yet, the speeches are often interesting! For another, I have a hard time warming up to the protagonists. I admire but do not like Howard Roark. Same goes for Dagny Taggert.

    It's okay to put forth strong ideas even if they are not perfect. Other people can debate them and we can make progress. On the other hand, if every discussion consists of, "Well, everything is relative, let's hold hands!", then it's boring and leads to no progress.

    EDIT: When I speak with disdain about saying everything is relative, I'm only thinking of frustration and boredom with people I knew a couple years ago who would short circuit every potentially fun debate by saying that everything is relative. Then that would be the end of the discussion. This remark was not aimed at anybody here.
    Last edited by SquirrelTao; 06-19-2008 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Clarify remark

  10. #10
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Something is wrong with her and it's too late to fix it.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

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