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  1. #1
    Senior Member norepinephrine's Avatar
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    Default Breaking Ties with an ENTJ

    OK, here’s the scenario. I’ve been involved in a nonexclusive Friends with Benefits arrangement with my next door neighbor for about nine months and I’m sure we all know FWB is not generally a relationship prone to long-term sustainability. But we’re both older – past the childrearing/looking for commitment stage so it’s worked fairly well thus far. However, I’ve reached the point where I find myself more irritated than content. So I recognize the need for either renegotiation or a cessation of activity.

    I (female) am an INTP. So far as I can tell, he is ENTJ. Which is to say that if I’m not paying sufficient attention I occasionally find myself standing at the edge of a cliff thinking “I don’t recall agreeing to do THIS.”

    Anyway, dear ENTJs, should you feel yourselves capable of betraying one of your own, I need a break-up plan. One primary issue is that his tendency toward manipulation and the need to have things his way when he wants often equates in my mind to a lack of respect. And that’s where, as an INTP, I really have to put my foot down.

    But I do want this to be as painless as possible. I really like him (and you can take this as a compliment for all the ENTJs on the forum) - he’s one of the few people who doesn’t just bore the hell out of me and he’s generally able to intuit what I’m saying (even if I don’t get a chance to finish the damned sentence). This is somewhat of a pre-emptive strike in that I don’t think he realizes how much of a problem I am beginning to have with this relationship.

    So tell me, will coldly and logically presenting an argument while emphasizing that certain areas of discontent are due to my personal emotional issues (for which he is not responsible and which may be irrational but do still have merit in the larger context) satisfy an ENTJ as to the desirability of ending a relationship or will he respond with attempts at negotiation?

    Or am I likely bringing the fires of Hell down on my head?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by norepinephrine View Post
    ...
    My Father (who is a jerk) is an ENTJ, as is my wife (decidedly not a jerk) here are a few observations. As an INTP, ENTJs are usually exciting and maddening at the same time.

    1. They respect people who can stand up to them, especially in an argument. Luckily, INTP's are one of the few types who can do this. In the heat of the moment they will use logic, intimidation, volume, and mockery in any combination that they believe will lead to victory.

    2. They often try to trip up an opponent with semantics, but become very petulant when the tables are reversed.

    3. They hate to be ignored.

    4. If the sense they are getting to you emotionally during a fight, they will go for blood.

    It'll be hard to tell you exactly what to do, as your personal relationship as well as the ENTJ's tendencies and development will make the situation unique.

    Personally:
    With my father, I usually like to have an audience. After tearing down his generally faulty logic, I withstand the intimidation, mockery, etc. All the while staying calm. When he's finally flammed out, I usually just ignore him and walk away. With an audience, he usually takes some crap and looks like a fool. ENTJ's hate to look like a fool, on top of being publicly ignored. He doesn't mess with me anymore, and I decidedly have the upper hand in the relationship.

    With my wife, we only argue in private. I lay out my argument very logically straight away and then just remain loving and calm. The argument will die down. A couple of hours or maybe a day later, she tells me she's been thinking about what I said, it makes sense, we have a discussion, and we move on. If I'm the one at fault, I usually realize it during the argument, say so and things are over right away. She usually needs a cooling off period for her logic function to override her "must win at any cost" function.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Gen's Avatar
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    The experience I've had with ENTJ's (which was not sexual or romantic) leads me to believe that you should keep your feelings out of it. Explain why it's logically not working and mostly undoable now. Explaining illogical feeling and their ultimate merit may be met with attempts at manipulation and, frankly, misunderstanding. They do what makes sense, not what feels right.

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    The advice here seems good.

    I would just remember that no matter what his scorch-and-burn policy is, nothing he says or does can harm you unless you let it. You can only be convinced, beaten, or cowed if you choose to allow his arguments to do such to you.

    While at times it might feel "wrong" as an INTP to not address his arguments, if you are already convinced you've been violated and know what you need (i.e., you've figured out some of your values and what you will and won't take), you don't have to "win" anything.

    You can, if you need to, just say, "Here's the way it's going to be," and walk. It's only when you're worried about looking unreasonable that you become vulnerable to his ploys.

    (I know you respect him so you'd like him to have a good image of you... but seriously, if you're sure about your stance, it doesn't matter who is the better arguer. This is your life, and you already know you're not his first priority. If you have to, walk.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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  6. #6
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    With an ENTJ, keep it simple and to the point. You don't need a very elaborate plan. ENTJ's value honesty and directness.

  7. #7
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    1. Don't lie.

    2. Don't procrastinate.

    3. Don't vacillate.

    The sharpest observation on relationships came from a friend of mine. The friend said, "People feel how they feel, and I'll be darned if there's a thing anybody can do about it." If this has always been about attraction, rather than commitment, then it -- technically, and unfortunately -- doesn't need any rational explanation but for a statement of the obvious.

  8. #8
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    OK, here’s the scenario. I’ve been involved in a nonexclusive Friends with Benefits arrangement with my next door neighbor for about nine months and I’m sure we all know FWB is not generally a relationship prone to long-term sustainability.
    I was really out of the discussion at this point xD
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #9
    Senior Member norepinephrine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    1. Don't lie.

    2. Don't procrastinate.

    3. Don't vacillate.

    >IOW, "When the need arises - and it does - you must be able to shoot you own dog. " I get it. Not
    that there is likely to be, in reference to Edahn's post, any actual gunfire involved.

    >Quoting Heinlein.... What a lovely way to get in touch with my nerd heritage. Perhaps I *should* be
    shot.

    >I see I've come to the right place. All of the intelligent advice and comments posted above mesh
    with what I've been thinking and anticipating/dreading.

    >But... calm in the face of a rant ? I know can do that. Resolute ? After the amount of time it's taken
    me to basically unpack and examine my own emotions, I certainly hope I can do that as well.
    Honesty - I have have never lied to him. Redirecting a line of inquiry - that's another story.

    >Procrastination? Ay, there's the rub. I am an intP, always looking for the innovative solution. I'll...
    try to resolve this in a timely manner with the understanding that to do otherwise is unfair to both
    parties.

    The sharpest observation on relationships came from a friend of mine. The friend said, "People feel how they feel, and I'll be darned if there's a thing anybody can do about it." If this has always been about attraction, rather than commitment, then it -- technically, and unfortunately -- doesn't need any rational explanation but for a statement of the obvious.
    I am obviously missing something, but please explain the use of the word "unfortunately."

  10. #10
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    Tell him"Tempus abire tibi est", time for you to go away.
    I would suggest you dont have such relations with neighbors, it gets complicated too easily.

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