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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Yes, we take care of our tools.
    Yes. Very well said.
    Better tools get more resources allocated and worse tools are the first to go when it's time for optimization.

    Btw I've seen an INFJ work in an INTJ team It was funny. I don't think he ever realized why they valued him - I think he thought they were building a relationship (the Fe way).

    Sometimes INFJ perfectionism and dislike for letting team members down make them great tools. And the lowest on the emotional maintenance from all the Fe types also.
    They are good at connecting people too. INTJs are bad at it and often value the INFJs' results in the relationship arena. Though INTJs still hate Fe in itself, they like the results. I'd sell that HARD if I were the OP. No decent INTJ is stupid enough not to realize how bad they are at people stuff and emotional cuddling.

  2. #22

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    Yes, very good Istbkleta.. play with your "tool." Play with it all over my thread.

  3. #23

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    By the way "he" is a "she!!" I thought that would be obvious. I think it probably would make a difference in how people were parsing the thread. There have been several comments about the pay differential between men and women, negotiation styles, etc. Very interesting... I assumed that was clearly the case.

    I'm not offended by the way. People often think I'm a man online for some reason.

  4. #24

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    You don't do your work for the boss, but for the organization. You don't so much deserve your pay, but rather earn it. (Yes, subtle semantic distinctions.)

    Yes, thank you, I do earn it!!! But I do work a lot of unpaid overtime. Technically, I deserve being paid for this as well as having earned it.

    Also I work for the organization but I'm paid directly by my boss's soft money. The organization does not pay my salary. This is common at universities.

    People are so squeamish about pay. I don't get how this is. Work is the blood and guts of what we do every day and pay is this embarrassing secretive thing. All these taboos are basically set up so ordinary people don't demand a living wage.

  5. #25
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    After having worked to a level of becoming proficient at doing the job, having started at a level of coming in not being skilled at the job at all, I'd ask him to double it.
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by lostlanguage View Post
    I'm hoping to develop better boundaries about "what I want" at work too.
    Think about how everyone else is being treated at your place of employment and expect similar compensation treatment. This is all about supply and demand.

    If you accepted the offer for what you are making and you have only been there for 8 months then I don't think you have much of any case to ask for anything. Once you have established yourself after a couple of years, you could start mentioning that you love your job but .... If you get promoted and/or the place you are working at is growing like crazy and you're important enough to your employer (lot of ifs there), you might get a big annual increase - like 15 or 25% but I wouldn't expect that to be the norm. If you think you can make more money and there is a better opportunity elsewhere, then leave. I once asked for a big raise because I thought I deserved to be paid a lot more. It was true and they knew it. They knew they would lose me if they didn't give me this big increase (it turned out to be 40%). I would not necessarily recommend this though because someone has to ask for that money and if you put yourself in that person's position, you can imagine how difficult that might be to expend the political capital to ask for something which is so much out of the norm.

    Oh and whenever I hear someone talking about boundaries, it is always an INFJ. I really don't understand why you guys talk about this so much but perhaps this isn't the right context for asking that question.

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  6. #26
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    The following link is to a Wall Street Journal article entitled "So You Want a Raise..." It's more or less targeted toward younger workers asking for their first raise. It doesn't specifically concern INTJ bosses, but a lot of these conventions are kind of standardized in the business world and this article spells out the basic ettiquette for handling the situation for bosses of all types: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...678738168.html

    It also references a book and some useful websites on the subject, for futher reading.

  7. #27
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I don't have anything to contribute, except that I don't think you should be sacrificing your days off to do work. Of course, if something is really important and has to be done now or the project will collapse, that's understandable. However, if you find that you always have to work on your days off, there's something wrong with the workload. Rest days are there for a reason. Don't burn yourself out. If it goes on for a long time you're going to end up overworked, exhausted and resentful. I used to think I had to work all the time too, because I felt guilty for being paid. Luckily I've gotten over it now.


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Oh and whenever I hear someone talking about boundaries, it is always an INFJ. I really don't understand why you guys talk about this so much but perhaps this isn't the right context for asking that question.
    Personally I don't really like the word or concept but here's a half-baked thought: I think Fe types in general have problems with balancing their own needs and the perceived needs of others. They are very conscious of the 'bending' in a way Fi types (and Te and Ti) aren't. But you don't hear SFJs complaining about boundaries as much because they will make up their mind on how they will or will not do specific types of things and move on. For NFJs it's less clear and when they try to get to the bottom of the issue they term it "boundaries"
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I don't have anything to contribute, except that I don't think you should be sacrificing your days off to do work. Of course, if something is really important and has to be done now or the project will collapse, that's understandable. However, if you find that you always have to work on your days off, there's something wrong with the workload. Rest days are there for a reason. Don't burn yourself out. If it goes on for a long time you're going to end up overworked, exhausted and resentful. I used to think I had to work all the time too, because I felt guilty for being paid. Luckily I've gotten over it now.
    Good point. Some bosses regard workers who put in lots of overtime as disorganized or incompetent. They see the overtime as an indication that the worker is unable to get his work done in the allotted normal working hours. Or they figure the worker is a control freak and unable to delegate properly or function as a team player in order to spread the work out more equitably. Or they figure that the worker is setting himself up for a case of burn-out.

    So you may want to talk to your boss and sound him out about how he regards all that overtime. Some bosses love workers who put in lots of overtime, but others may look at such workers with suspicion and distrust: they see excess overtime as a symptom that there's some kind of underlying misallocation of resources.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    No
    What do you mean, 'No'?

    What is it you think @lostlanguage is after?
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostlanguage View Post
    Yes, thank you, I do earn it!!! But I do work a lot of unpaid overtime. Technically, I deserve being paid for this as well as having earned it.
    I don't know that I agree with this. Let me explain why.

    WHY do you work a lot of unpaid overtime?

    I'm of the opinion that companies/organizations will try to get the most out of you for the least amount of pay - i.e. if you demonstrate that you're willing to work a lot of overtime for free, or you don't take vacation days, all without complaining or without asking beforehand about whether there will be compensation, etc, then why would a company later on decide to start paying you for the overtime or reward you for it? Why would they, if you happily did all of it prior for free?

    Now: I fully understand as a new employee, sometimes going 'above and beyond' can be a good thing, if you have a good read on the situation and you know that this will help give you an edge for a salary raise/discussion a year later, or something. But to think you deserve it is going a little far imo, because you're willingly/voluntarily doing this for free! I know there are probably extenuating circumstances/reasons for you doing this, but again, why you and not others? This can get back to the delegation aspect, or simply putting your foot down so that your boss realizes that the amount of work being requested to be done cannot be done with the current resource set.
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