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  1. #21
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Kiddo, I fear you misunderstand me. I am suggesting that there is no such thing as an NT who only uses logic. Like it or not, they'll all use other functions to embrace stuff. So there is no way of answering the question - it would require finding an NT that doesn't possess emotions, or sexual drives or any of the other complex things that make all humans alive.
    So you are saying that emotions and sexual drives are outside of logic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    To be honest, I don't pride myself on being logical. I pride myself purely on being reasonable. I can accept that there are some beliefs I hold that are ultimately unprovable, indeed I revel in some of them, but I strive always to be reasonable about them. I will not truly debate these points except on the premise of hypocricy or internal inconsistency, as evidence for them is inherently lacking. For example, I really have a visceral enjoyment of truly sappy pop songs. Is there some inherent value or logic in this? No! Do I try to argue from a rational standpoint that others should enjoy truly sappy pop songs? God I'd hope not. I could string together some chain about enjoyment/pain being logical, but why? We could do such torturous exercize for every type of motivation, but it doesn't mean we actually create such stupid rationalizations until called on it (ex: in this thread). The enjoyment is enough.

    What makes me an NT, or at least an INTP, is the fact that I do not consider such visceral responses within the realm of argument. This is where I come off as cool and emotionless: I am perfectly willing to accept that your viewpoints and values are equally as valid as mine unless contradicted by tangible outside data. There are grey areas, such as politics, where the two cross over and one must be careful...

    So logic is not my driving force, merely my main tool to pick apart pieces of the world. If it doesn't work? I use another tool or learn to appreciate a mystery.
    "The subject chooses to sit in shadow and search for wisdom by reflecting upon his trial. The problem is not that he is cold and wet, but that cold and wet seems problematic, so he embraces those hardships in order to best them."

  3. #23
    only bites when provoked
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    So in other words, you can't truly accept something until you have a logical reason for it? Even if you have to generate them yourself?
    No.

    Explaining it to you would make your poor little NF head explode.
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  4. #24
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    No.

    Explaining it to you would make your poor little NF head explode.
    I'm always up for a good head explosion. Bring it on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #25
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Edahn, art is the product of human creativity. Are you suggesting that creativity isn't logical?
    AHA. If we accept that logic is a calculating function, then I would say yes, absolutely. Deep creativity happens when we put our thinking, calculating mind aside and just accept shit the way it is, hence the relationship between meditation and art.

  6. #26
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    AHA. If we accept that logic is a calculating function, then I would say yes, absolutely. Deep creativity happens when we put our thinking, calculating mind aside and just accept shit the way it is, hence the relationship between meditation and art.
    Yes.

    If you want to see the world, you must visualize yourself absent from it.

  7. #27
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    If you want to see the world, you must visualize yourself absent from it.
    It's tricky as hell, because the more you try to accomplish something, the less accepting you are.

    *dramatic music chords*

  8. #28
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    AHA. If we accept that logic is a calculating function, then I would say yes, absolutely. Deep creativity happens when we put our thinking, calculating mind aside and just accept shit the way it is, hence the relationship between meditation and art.
    God dammit! I can't think of an argument against that. Imagination isn't necessarily logical and I don't know of a single human being who doesn't value it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  9. #29
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Imagination isn't necessarily logical and I don't know of a single human being who doesn't value it.
    xSTJ.

  10. #30
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    xSTJ.
    Yeah, that was my first thought too. But I know an ISTJ and he says he takes great pleasure in imagining new ways to hurt me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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