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  1. #61
    Senior Member Gen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Oh, I was just surprised a bunch of other NT's didn't come along and say "sub you talk such BS, I'm nothing like that, that's just you, you big ol' freak!!"
    I would have said that but the F I've developed told me its not very nice!

    Honestly I feel as if most people exaggerate the lack of emotion or the total compartmentalization of feeling and thinking; or that its just much less with me. Every decision is made with feelings in mind, its just that some are made "because I feel like it" and some are made because "I feel like this value is most important." I think many T's also misinterpret the difference between thinking and feeling, playing down their feelings just so they can call it thinking.

    That's not to say I don't identify at all. I am a T and I definitely have felt like that sleeping kitten completely attacked by my feelings, seemingly out of no where!

  2. #62
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yeah that, but I thought it was also just being aware of your own emotions? Or is that just F generally?

    See? clueless
    I used to think that too then Gen looked it up... I have no idea which subset tell syou about your own feelings. I'm not even sure that's F at all (Identifying them that is, whether or how you include them is what the F fucntions are about, I think?)

    In any case, my internal set of values tells me it's mean to be suspicious of someone when they're just being nice. So it could still be Fi making me feel guilty?
    Fi would inform you that you are doing wrong, if you believe it's wrong to be suspicous of someone being nice. But your Fe and Ne may be hinting that this person may not be genuine though, despite their not being enough evidence for you Ti to agree? Which do you think is more likely to give you a false reading?

  3. #63
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Gen don't get me wrong, I have indeed exaggerrated the extent and deliberateness of the process for illustration purposes Most of what I describe goes on unconsciously. Again, it's an example of my Ti back engineering what Ne does instinctively to try to explain it.

    By no means would I say that process is all there is, that it has the last say every time. It's just my usual, default sorta instinct. And I'm nowhere near that being the way I work ALL the time, but it's an ideal that I strive towards. It's stoicism, really, which has always appealed to or found sympathy in the NT camp, nothing new

    Dom, usually I'd say the weaker functions are the ones more likely to give me a false reading! But not always...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  4. #64
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Are you saying that we use Ti to rationalise what comes from Ne?
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  5. #65
    Senior Member Gen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Gen don't get me wrong, I have indeed exaggerrated the extent and deliberateness of the process for illustration purposes Most of what I describe goes on unconsciously. Again, it's an example of my Ti back engineering what Ne does instinctively to try to explain it.

    By no means would I say that process is all there is, that it has the last say every time. It's just my usual, default sorta instinct. And I'm nowhere near that being the way I work ALL the time, but it's an ideal that I strive towards. It's stoicism, really, which has always appealed to or found sympathy in the NT camp, nothing new
    I understand, you do have to exaggerate to explain some things, I know. I so don't mean to sound like I think I'm better than you at all.

    Dom, usually I'd say the weaker functions are the ones more likely to give me a false reading! But not always...
    You Ne dominants! Always trusting your primary function and shit!

    Heh.

  6. #66
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    Are you saying that we use Ti to rationalise what comes from Ne?
    Not exactly. I'm saying that *I* do, and other NT's might also

    For me Ne is primary and Ti secondary, so yeah that's the process, info pours in from Ne and Ne just does its thing, spontaneously improvising and getting carried away and loving it, while Ti scrambles to make sense of it all and perhaps apply the brakes. Ne's so damn hyperactive though, it can be quite a while sometimes before it lets me sit down for five minutes and just gather my thoughts... lol

    edit - I guess for an INTP it'd be the other way round, maybe Ti analysing and overanalysing everything all the time and Ne has to wait for Ti to draw breath for its chance to break in and say 'wait, what about this...? but what use is it? but when are you gonna get off your ass and do any of this?' lol
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #67
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Nah, I'd say that I may well do many things because of Ti, but I do at least as many things out of Ne. Still, since I feel uncomfortable about that, what I catch myself doing quite often is to try and build constructions that make these Ne decisions look rational.

    I tried to discuss this before, calling the Ne action a "gut feeling" but noticed that many people only read the word "feeling" there and disqualified it... Any thoughts on that?
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  8. #68
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    Nah, I'd say that I may well do many things because of Ti, but I do at least as many things out of Ne. Still, since I feel uncomfortable about that, what I catch myself doing quite often is to try and build constructions that make these Ne decisions look rational.
    yeah that sounds familiar...

    I tried to discuss this before, calling the Ne action a "gut feeling" but noticed that many people only read the word "feeling" there and disqualified it... Any thoughts on that?
    I dunno, maybe 'gut instinct' is a more neutral phrase...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #69
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    I tried to discuss this before, calling the Ne action a "gut feeling" but noticed that many people only read the word "feeling" there and disqualified it... Any thoughts on that?
    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I dunno, maybe 'gut instinct' is a more neutral phrase...
    This is part of the difficulty with discussing such things between Fs and Ts. Sometimes it seems that Ts diregard or wish to debunct a concept simply because the words feeling or feelings were used. It's like a default position of hostility, that is part of what I don't understand, why so hostile? So what if your feelings and emotions could lead you astray, so can (and often does) your thinking.

    I study history and if I run across a problematic sorce, I don' treat it like an enmey trying to drag me down the wrong path, but like a source I have to work harder with to yeild fruitful results. Just because it's ahrder to do so doesn't mean it's not an important source.

  10. #70
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    hmm... though perhaps sometimes you're reading a simple desire for clarification and disambiguation as hostility?

    I just like to ensure that if we're discussing something, we're on the same page. It's frustrating when after hours of argument, I finally realize that we agreed all along, we just thought the words meant different things. That's why I like to start out if possible by agreeing on definitions. Bit like lawyers do
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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