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    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    Default The Ne versus Ti slugfest.

    Having taken the some MBTI tests, the results commonly show that my strongest cognitive processes are Ti, Ne, and Fi where the three are close. So normally, when graphs are being displayed, My Introversion side is almost dead even with my Extraversion side. Though the rest are different. My intuition is way ahead of my senses, thinking is considerable ahead of the feeling function (due to weak Fe, even if the Fi is strong), and Perception is significantly better than the Judgment function.

    Over the past few years, my Ti is pretty strong. It gave me a sense of structure, but it lacks the factor in inspiring me. It may give clarity, but not necessarily the motivation to move. So i guess that's the part where I started to go spiritual (which I attribute to the strengthening of the Fi). Though really, it's hard to get some sense of spirituality / motivation if you want your inner self to be moved by some inner values when you always have a Ti to double check things.

    Come to think of it, Ti and Fi are double-checking entities that I try to put coherence with each other and this eventually made me think that I'm getting too "uptight" because of this. I shouldn't be only looking for a prime mover (Fi), but I seriously need to cut myself some slack. At least my inner world does.

    _______________

    Now here comes my other strong cognitive process that I overlook--Ne. Though I would say that among the three supposedly strong cognitive processes that I have, this is the one that I least understood.

    I have some questions.

    1. Some forum members show their MBTI readings where Introversion is considerably higher than their extroversion, or vice versa. For example, I saw some readings of INTPs here where I is much stronger than the E. Does that mean Ti is their glaring strength, end everything else is considerably weaker, even Ne?

    I thought an Ne / Ti balanced slugfest is normal.

    2. One of the descriptions I've read about an ENTP is their supposed good money making skills (even though their money management skills is questionable). INTPs are known to neither have both. What is it about a jacked up Ne that gives a person an edge in generating income, even if a strong P doesn't promote good follow-up?

    3. Does it imply that a strong Ne gives someone a certain degree of sociability? Most of the ENTP readings I read implies a social strength that they have because their strongest function is an extroversion function. In my opinion, Ne is charismatic but only if executed right in the context of social situations, otherwise, it can equally be as devastative.

    4. Another thing I've read about ENTP is a strong proactive stance in doing something. Again, what is it about Ne that all of a sudden makes an ENTP more proactive in doing something, comparatively with an INTP? Is Ne a "doing" function?

    5. Does a strong Ne implies a generally Devil's Advocate disposition when interacting with someone? Personally, I only do that when my Ti gets threatened. Otherwise, it's not a general disposition that I have.

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    1. Some forum members show their MBTI readings where Introversion is considerably higher than their extroversion, or vice versa. For example, I saw some readings of INTPs here where I is much stronger than the E. Does that mean Ti is their glaring strength, end everything else is considerably weaker, even Ne?

    I thought an Ne / Ti balanced slugfest is normal.
    I will say that you can't go by percentages on those either/or tests. Because they ARE simply binary tests. To put numbers to it, you could get 100% introvert, but that doesn't mean you are all introvert in how you behave and not extroverted at all -- it simply means in that every either/or question testing for introversion, you were at least 51% introverted and so chose the introvert answer.

    So having a 100% I on these tests could mean you are a neurotic introvert, it could also mean you are right on the border of being extroverted.

    (See what I mean?)

    You can't really mix these binary pairing tests with actual function test strengths. They're different tests. You'd think that all the Xi functions would be equitable to Introversion but it doesn't really work that way.

    Introverts can still be very introverted, yet still use their extroverted secondary a lot more than their primary.

    2. One of the descriptions I've read about an ENTP is their supposed good money making skills (even though their money management skills is questionable). INTPs are known to neither have both. What is it about a jacked up Ne that gives a person an edge in generating income, even if a strong P doesn't promote good follow-up?
    It's a combination.

    Being extroverted, they enjoy doing things that are actually marketable (vs INTPs, who build theories -- not very marketable, unless they sell the idea to someone making a product).

    Being extroverted, they also get a rush off convincing someone else to buy something -- basically using their Ti to come up with strategies to support their Ne idea hopping.

    Their Fe in third position often gets coupled with Ne (the other extroverted function), which is why they get a rep for being overly affectionate sometimes.

    The worst aspects of ENTP off the top of my head are the inability to finish projects and the tendency to fritter away whatever they earn through their windfalls.

    I think this "sales" power is easily an EP thing.
    • ESTPs are "sellers" too, they love to close deals; they tend to be better at keeping the nose to the grindstone and actually getting things done.
    • ESFPs get a rush off selling and making money to support their desires. They just tend to be more impractical than ESTP, less grounded; they can schmooze better on the personal level but can't strategize long-term as well
    • ENFPs are more people-centered and thus not as hard-nosed as the ETPs in some ways, but they can still scrap pretty well to sell their ideas.


    These types do, to me, seem to "sell themselves" better. Being extroverted, they're good at attracting attention or forging quick connections with others; being P, they are quick to flex to "meld" with the customer, figuring out what they want, and then giving it to them in a way that is also advantageous to them.

    (EJ's by contrast often are inclined to force "their best solution" on the customer.. which sometimes is the right way to go but isn't as high-power a quick sales strategy.)

    3. Does it imply that a strong Ne gives someone a certain degree of sociability? Most of the ENTP readings I read implies a social strength that they have because their strongest function is an extroversion function. In my opinion, Ne is charismatic but only if executed right in the context of social situations, otherwise, it can equally be as devastative.
    Ne is very very charismatic. Everyone loves an ideas person. Even S's enjoy Ne people in the right context. I found with my Ne and artistic abilities, a lot of S's who don't have it are in awe of such things... they don't understand it and they find it fascinating.... unless of course, it starts getting underfoot.

    Where it's negative is when either the Ne is so extreme that you're pingponged somewhere no one else can follow, or you are Ne'ing in a situation where you are supposed to be making decisions, getting work done, being realistic, etc.

    This is why work groups often have a brainstorming (i.e., Ne) session, where everyone can pingpoing around without limits being imposed.... then at some point the line is drawn and practical work on those ideas has to commence.

    Ne contributes to a quick wit, though. Good for parties. It also enables connection building -- you are quick to see what bridges will connect two people together.

    I think INTPs will more easily integrate by leading with Ne in social settings, until they feel comfortable and have enough Fe dev or know the people around them well enough to start delivering their hard, Ti judgments about the world.

    4. Another thing I've read about ENTP is a strong proactive stance in doing something. Again, what is it about Ne that all of a sudden makes an ENTP more proactive in doing something, comparatively with an INTP? Is Ne a "doing" function?
    Look at it less as "doing" and more as in "doing it where?"

    "Thinking" is actually equivalent to "doing" for INTPs. They are "building coherent models of reality."

    Extroverts just do their thing in the outer world, so we see it as "action." Introverts just do their thing internally... it's not tangible, but it's still the same energy investment as "action" in the external world for them.

    Does that make sense?

    So an INTP will build internally. An ENTP will build externally and be seen as "more active" altogether.

    5. Does a strong Ne implies a generally Devil's Advocate disposition when interacting with someone? Personally, I only do that when my Ti gets threatened. Otherwise, it's not a general disposition that I have.
    I don't know. There are different ways to approach that role in a conversation. One is just to be pissy and ruin everyone's fun. But often I instinctively, because I'm seeing a complex situation, will tacitly nod to the POV being offered (beacuse it's PART of the big picture) and then go on to fill in the holes about the other parts of reality that either expand or conflict with it. This can come across as "arguing the opposite point of view" all the time, and I do understand why. But I'm merely trying to "finish the painting," and the painting often includes conflicting ideas. So my saying little about the stuff that I might agree with, and instead just filling in the conflicting gaps, can come off as negative.

    it's just something to be aware of and add qualifiers to your comments in regards to.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    resonance entropie's Avatar
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