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Thread: INTP + INFJ

  1. #61
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    yes, and if that's the game, i can easily say, thank you for cheering and clapping at commercial breaks. now here's your free bag of coupons. i'll send you a copy of the quarterly earning statements you helped me generate.

    but anytime you dismiss something, you necessarily dismiss the time you spent participating or resisting participating in it. you sell your authenticity to protect your image. why is it so difficult to see that control has already been lost, given that the only control recognized was outside of us and never ours to begin with?

    you can never directly change the thoughts and the feelings that happen within you. you can only change how you relate to them. whether that's better or worse is up to you; and only knowable after you actually experience it without dismissing it due to fear and continuing the same old parasitic (to you) cycle. of taking the best for yourself and leaving others with the worst. as a friend of mine says, power exhausts itself.

    said another way, your dismissal of j functioning is ironic because you don't know how to fully explore and stay with and appreciate that part of yourself and the range of experiences that open up because of that way of functioning. you predict it's wrong based on decisions already made. same critique as your own, just at a different order. confirmation bias affects all cognitive processes. and the differentiation of cognitive processes itself is to specialize in specific types of confirmation bias.

    there is no game without full circles. similarly, there is no home, and no one to be there.

  2. #62
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    I have no idea what the fuck you're on about. Sounds like someone forgot to take their meds..

    I don't like Js (as a rule) and that's my prerogative. It's not because I have no experience of them. Quite the opposite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
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  3. #63
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    I have nothing helpful to add to the thread, unless this is: I really, really like most INFJs. Of all types, they seem to be the most genuinely interested in other people. Plus, they seldom realize how great they are, and I (usually) find that charming.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Boner killer.

    I think male INTPs are more willing to put up with this - perhaps because it reminds them of their mothers, perhaps because they just expect women to be this way (it's very FJ) perhaps because they are more desperate. Who knows?

    Anyway, I don't think it works for female INTPs. Perhaps because we've had enough of being told what's wrong with us and want someone broad-minded / tolerant enough to accept us for the marvels we are.

    Based on my experience, I would agree that INTP females are marvelous.

  5. #65
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I thought so too. Until she took a major dump on me in the most heinous and mean way. It really was incredible, what she demonstrated. (old work buddy of mine, who I thought was my friend).

    Srsly, friendship cannot be judged by type.
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  6. #66
    A_priori
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    yes, and if that's the game, i can easily say, thank you for cheering and clapping at commercial breaks. now here's your free bag of coupons. i'll send you a copy of the quarterly earning statements you helped me generate.

    but anytime you dismiss something, you necessarily dismiss the time you spent participating or resisting participating in it. you sell your authenticity to protect your image. why is it so difficult to see that control has already been lost, given that the only control recognized was outside of us and never ours to begin with?

    you can never directly change the thoughts and the feelings that happen within you. you can only change how you relate to them. whether that's better or worse is up to you; and only knowable after you actually experience it without dismissing it due to fear and continuing the same old parasitic (to you) cycle. of taking the best for yourself and leaving others with the worst. as a friend of mine says, power exhausts itself.

    said another way, your dismissal of j functioning is ironic because you don't know how to fully explore and stay with and appreciate that part of yourself and the range of experiences that open up because of that way of functioning. you predict it's wrong based on decisions already made. same critique as your own, just at a different order. confirmation bias affects all cognitive processes. and the differentiation of cognitive processes itself is to specialize in specific types of confirmation bias.

    there is no game without full circles. similarly, there is no home, and no one to be there.
    It's actually really interesting seeing how an INFJ and INTP communicated because I have seen it demonstrated quite a bit. I think you are actually quite intellectual and I get a sense of what your trying to communicate as well. I also think Salome sounds really intelligent. I bet if you guys met face to face you would probably get along really well. Your both really well spoken and both have some interesting veiws. My personal experience with INTPs have mostly been really pleasant and obviously as an INFJ myself I think we're prety cool also

  7. #67
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    what makes you feel that you need to always play/be the villain?

    i'm recently learning to appreciate one of the "habits" in the book "7 habits for highly effective people" that says "seek first to understand, and then to be understood." it seems like a useful recipe for recognizing the feeling of being trapped, misunderstood, and unappreciated is not necessarily because of others but often comes from us--our own traps, misunderstandings, and inability to appreciate others and ourselves. cue the radiohead song "just."
    I dont really think she was trying to be a villain or anything like that :/ . This sort of "woah where the heck did that come from" things are bit annoying to INTPs and strongly relate to that last part she said about the prejudice/J close mindedness. I find it funny that in the reply, which is clearly wholy based on misunderstanding, you are preaching about having to understand others to be understood yourself. But you know, this has a positive side too, luckily NTPs are (usually)good at figuring out where the problem is when something is off(your response in this case) and see that you simply (pre)misjudged due to Jness, while some others might see you simply as someone who escaped the asylum. I do recognize the possibility of this guess of mine being completely wrong, it is just a guess, but seems the most likely thing from my perspective. And now you probably think im being mean too, but im just being true
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  8. #68
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_priori View Post
    I bet if you guys met face to face you would probably get along really well.
    I very much doubt that. Allergic as I am to FJ lecturing.

    Since I'm apparently intelligent (without actually being an intellectual, because, as we all know, that station is reserved for INFJs) why don't I break down exactly what's going on here for the folks at home?

    INFJ dude (with a thing for NTP females who help him sort out his muddled thinking) gets huffy because INTP bitch does not have reciprocal interest in INFJ males. Rather than chalking that up to individual differences, as any normal person might, he decides to assassinate INTP's character, under the guise of trying to be "helpful" and to wake her up to her own folly. (Because he understands her and evidently, she doesn't understand herself.)

    She's a villain. (At least she's not a villainess).
    But he also demeans her into the role of cheerleader (because he's not certain she was adequately insulted by that first attempt).

    She's inauthentic. (Because she can't possibly have a sane justification for her preferences.)

    She's a control-freak (yep, that's right folks SHE's the control-freak).

    She's a parasite and a user. (Um...I got nothing but a )

    She's an idiot. (Because she exercises her powers of discrimination, which she's not allowed to do if she doesn't want to date a J. But she also finds herself in the (literally) impossible state of both making a judgement and being incapable of making one.)

    All of this will inevitably lead to her being alone, and fuck, well, doesn't she just deserve it though?

    Maybe he's playing an "annoying push/pull game " (with the emphasis on the annoying push)?

    Who can say? Festering as it is with poetic ambiguity . . .

    I guess we should all be grateful that INFJs "don't want to hurt anyone".


    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I dont really think she was trying to be a villain or anything like that :/ . This sort of "woah where the heck did that come from" things are bit annoying to INTPs and strongly relate to that last part she said about the prejudice/J close mindedness. I find it funny that in the reply, which is clearly wholy based on misunderstanding, you are preaching about having to understand others to be understood yourself. But you know, this has a positive side too, luckily NTPs are good at figuring out where the problem is when something is off(your response in this case) and see that you simply (pre)misjudged due to Jness, while some others might see you simply as someone who escaped the asylum.
    Lol. I should really date another INTP. The trouble is we understand each other TOO well. And where's the fun in that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #69
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I very much doubt that. Allergic as I am to FJ lecturing.

    Since I'm apparently intelligent (without actually being an intellectual, because, as we all know, that station is reserved for INFJs) why don't I break down exactly what's going on here for the folks at home?

    INFJ dude (with a thing for NTP females who help him sort out his muddled thinking) gets huffy because INTP bitch does not have reciprocal interest in INFJ males. Rather than chalking that up to individual differences, as any normal person might, he decides to assassinate INTP's character, under the guise of trying to be "helpful" and to wake her up to her own folly. (Because he understands her and evidently, she doesn't understand herself.)

    She's a villain. (At least she's not a villainess).
    But he also demeans her into the role of cheerleader (because he's not certain she was adequately insulted by that first attempt).

    She's inauthentic. (Because she can't possibly have a sane justification for her preferences.)

    She's a control-freak (yep, that's right folks SHE's the control-freak).

    She's a parasite and a user. (Um...I got nothing but a )

    She's an idiot. (Because she exercises her powers of discrimination, which she's not allowed to do if she doesn't want to date a J. But she also finds herself in the (literally) impossible state of both making a judgement and being incapable of making one.)

    All of this will inevitably lead to her being alone, and fuck, well, doesn't she just deserve it though?

    Maybe he's playing an "annoying push/pull game " (with the emphasis on the annoying push)?

    Who can say? Festering as it is with poetic ambiguity . . .

    I guess we should all be grateful that INFJs "don't want to hurt anyone".
    Sounds like a type-flavored twist on nice guy syndrome. I hate that male entitlement crap no matter who is doing it.

    So telling guys that you don't want to date them directly doesn't really work much better on the idiot ones than just avoiding them/acting obtuse, like INFJs females tend to do, I guess. That sucks.
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  10. #70
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    yes, and if that's the game, i can easily say, thank you for cheering and clapping at commercial breaks. now here's your free bag of coupons. i'll send you a copy of the quarterly earning statements you helped me generate.

    but anytime you dismiss something, you necessarily dismiss the time you spent participating or resisting participating in it. you sell your authenticity to protect your image. why is it so difficult to see that control has already been lost, given that the only control recognized was outside of us and never ours to begin with?

    you can never directly change the thoughts and the feelings that happen within you. you can only change how you relate to them. whether that's better or worse is up to you; and only knowable after you actually experience it without dismissing it due to fear and continuing the same old parasitic (to you) cycle. of taking the best for yourself and leaving others with the worst. as a friend of mine says, power exhausts itself.

    said another way, your dismissal of j functioning is ironic because you don't know how to fully explore and stay with and appreciate that part of yourself and the range of experiences that open up because of that way of functioning. you predict it's wrong based on decisions already made. same critique as your own, just at a different order. confirmation bias affects all cognitive processes. and the differentiation of cognitive processes itself is to specialize in specific types of confirmation bias.

    there is no game without full circles. similarly, there is no home, and no one to be there.
    Are you being deliberately cryptic as an aggressive tactic? I find this text bewildering.

    For the purpose of this thread it is especially important to realize that there is a great variety of interaction styles for the INTP-INFJ close relationship. One helpful vantage point I have is that I have been married to two different hard-core INTPs. The interaction style and conflict/resolution style is different with each individual based on their experiences. The same is demonstrably true of INFJs in this thread.

    What has drawn me to INTP is that there is a connection to using reason to resolve conflict, and that happens to be something I personally value. The idea of becoming more cryptic in conflict is unsettling and unnatural in my perspective. It is inefficient from an emotional standpoint because it is unlikely to resolve the conflict, but could work as a dominating tactic. I think INFJs like @cafe and @fidelia are examples of being especially reasonable and pragmatic in resolving conflict, and I can't picture either becoming more cryptic. I think both myself and @cascadeco place a high importance on reason, analysis, and detachment to think clearly. There are also INFJs who have a marked determination and stubborness on their positions while others are malleable and easily thrown into uncertainty. The contrasts in communication style in both types are leading me to the conclusion that this pairing can produce a wide variety of outcomes, some of which are natural, and others which result in frustration at the impossibility of resolving any conflicts.

    I wonder if INFJs have a wider range of potential behaviors because of the whole Ni-dom part of their personality?
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