User Tag List

First 89101112 Last

Results 91 to 100 of 160

Thread: INTP+ENTJ

  1. #91
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    That's interesting. I always seem my withdrawls as giving in. Sort of just throwing my hands up.
    Consider. In withdrawal, you retain control of the situation. Without engagement, no one can challenge your perspective. You also withhold knowledge which for an enneatype 5, can be a lot. This is your locus for control.

    I get how an INTP could seem controlling in conversation beacause with think that there is a a correct way to see things. Everything has to makes sense. I could see us giving off the impression that people aren't allowed to think illogically. I use the general "you" as in "You can't think that if", "You can't believe that if" ect. It drives my ESFJ friend crazy because she always interprets it as meaning her specifically.
    Oh sure. It takes forever for an INTP to conclude, but when they've finally concluded something, it is most often rock solid within the Ti framework. That said, it can also be inaccurate, particularly with some out in the next galaxy INTPs (not you for sure). But to attack a Ti framework is tantamount to attacking the trunk of a tree. INTPs will lash out and protect that trunk since it leads to all the corollary branches.

    So if anyone's going to attack a Ti framework, they'd better have all their ducks, geese, chickens, carrier pigeons and dodo birds in order, prior to doing so.

    p.s. ESFJs aren't the best at debating. Everything becomes personal, including the impersonal and the garden fence.

  2. #92
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Consider. In withdrawal, you retain control of the situation. Without engagement, no one can challenge your perspective. You also withhold knowledge which for an enneatype 5, can be a lot. This is your locus for control.
    So we control by not allowing someone to keep tell us how wrong we are? hhmmmmm.... sounds like a pretty ENTJish comlaint . haah

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Oh sure. It takes forever for an INTP to conclude, but when they've finally concluded something, it is most often rock solid within the Ti framework. That said, it can also be inaccurate, particularly with some out in the next galaxy INTPs (not you for sure). But to attack a Ti framework is tantamount to attacking the trunk of a tree. INTPs will lash out and protect that trunk since it leads to all the correlating branches.

    So if anyone's going to attack a Ti framework, they'd better have all their ducks, geese, chickens, carrier pigeons and dodo birds in order, prior to doing so.
    Yeah, I've had to learn to sort of restrain myself and not hound people about what I see as logical inconsistencies. I think as a teen I was a little more ruthless when it came to wanting to show why certain view points couldn't make sense but now..........I have become aged and care not.

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    p.s. ESFJs aren't the best at debating. Everything becomes personal, including the impersonal and the garden fence.

    mmmmhhhhmmm. They don't enjoy it at all.

  3. #93
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    So we control by not allowing someone to keep tell us how wrong we are? hhmmmmm.... sounds like a pretty ENTJish comlaint . haah
    Have you never deliberately stone walled or given the silent treatment to anyone? How about withdrawing from a relationship argument with awareness that you hold information that might impact?

    I own my nature as an ENTJ. We control our environment using Te. It's our first coping strategy so it's something we should learn to tone down, particularly the more aggressive ones. These are facts of my type, both our strength and our weakness.

  4. #94
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    It's this odd mixture of dismissive judgment with a hint of entitlement.
    Perhaps this is part of the difference between m / f INTPs?
    The women haven't been tainted by the culture of (either male -because they're not-, or female -because they don't identify) entitlement.
    Yes. I think this might be it. Certainly you see INTP men whine a lot more about not being appreciated / understood by women.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Just too introverted or something, i don't know..i have already connected the dots and gone on the the next thing, i want the next piece of info...they stay on the subject too long...
    Gosh. So full of judgements I don't know where to start!
    Consider that your wants are not as transparent to everyone else as they are to you? Sometimes, it is necessary, or just courteous, to join the dots for other people too.

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    INTPs can be very controlling, whether masking as intellectual discourse or through withdrawal.
    All we are interested in controlling is access to our own space. We have no interest in encroaching upon the space of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    ESTJ men are tricky. They're really fun and can really take control of situations (allowing me to be a procrastinating disorganized P ). But that can also be very stubborn and very, very set in their ways. I get along really well with both ESxJs. I think the two types enjoy the novelty of the other one and they compliment each others skills and weaknesses. I think ESFJ is better though because their Fe makes up for the INTPs lack of social IQ, whereas the ESTJ's Te will just try to hammer whatever their opinion is into the INTPs brain.

    ESFJ has "a kinder, gentler machine gun hand".
    ESTJ men can be a lot of fun. ESFJ man is a disaster for INTP woman.
    Another person's Fe cannot "make up for" your own lack. It can beat you over the head though.
    Te and Ti are much less incompatible. Although...Brrrrrrr!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #95
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Have you never deliberately stone walled or given the silent treatment to anyone? How about withdrawing from a relationship argument with awareness that you hold information that might impact?
    No. I'm much too straight-forward for those games.
    And I'm always looking for clarity, even in interpersonal conflicts. Others will tire and withdraw long before I will. But then, I get less emotionally drained by conflict than others do. Fs in particular, can feel brutalised by my forensic scrutiny. I have tremendous stamina when it comes to conflict. Part of that is the brain-buzz, but mostly it's a genuine desire for resolution.

    If I stop communicating with someone, it's because I understand the conflict well enough to realise it's not resolvable. Only very seldom will I accept that any problem (intellectual, interpersonal or otherwise) is without solution. In fact, the thornier the problem, the more engaged I become.

    Edit. I think maybe the men withdraw because they are more likely to be sanctioned for aggressiveness (esp towards the opposite gender) and don't know how to be assertive. INTP men (esp type 9s) can be crippled by uncontrollable impulses towards rage that frighten them and which they do not know how to process constructively. Not being the type to lash out, they turn that rage inwards where it can eat away at their self-esteem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #96
    sophiloist Kaizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Perhaps this is part of the difference between m / f INTPs?
    The women haven't been tainted by the culture of (either male -because they're not-, or female -because they don't identify) entitlement.
    Yes. I think this might be it. Certainly you see INTP men whine a lot more about not being appreciated / understood by women.
    The 'be a man' statement is more an ENTJ statement.
    As for a fit, it varies and when seeing an ENTJ in comparison with an INTJ the Te+Ni combination seems to be the lesser incisive & potent combination.
    ESTJ males tend to have a lack of insight and seem to be very high on judgement, 'simplicity' and the obviousness of obvious stuff.
    Overall, the ETJ combination in males gets manifested in traditionalism to a large degree & power dynamics first and everything else later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    All we are interested in controlling is access to our own space. We have no interest in encroaching upon the space of others.
    That + having to explain that to others is very counter productive esp to ESs

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    ESTJ men can be a lot of fun. ESFJ man is a disaster for INTP woman.
    Another person's Fe cannot "make up for" your own lack. It can beat you over the head though.
    Te and Ti are much less incompatible. Although...Brrrrrrr!
    There is no second opinion about ESJs esp ESJ males.
    As for Te & Ti, their placement in the sequence matters, & with Fe too, but a lack of intelligence manifests itself very concretely.
    Passive aggressiveness or insidious machinations are more the ENTJ thing to do imo/e
    The answer must be in the attempt
    avy url : natgeocreative Photo

  7. #97
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizer View Post
    The 'be a man' statement is more an ENTJ statement.
    As for a fit, it varies and when seeing an ENTJ in comparison with an INTJ the Te+Ni combination seems to be the lesser incisive & potent combination.
    ESTJ males tend to have a lack of insight and seem to be very high on judgement, 'simplicity' and the obviousness of obvious stuff.
    What a pleasing phrase!
    Yes, but when they have a mind to entertain / charm you they can be a lot of fun. Would never work out for me long term with any J.
    Overall, the ETJ combination in males gets manifested in traditionalism to a large degree & power dynamics first and everything else later.
    Certanly seems to be case, esp on this forum. Assuming a similar tendency for ETJ women to be more comfortable with traditionalism (and the fact that their judging function is extroverted leads inevitably to this conclusion), this may account for much of the difference in the INTP/ENTJ dynamic.

    There is no second opinion about ESJs esp ESJ males.
    What do you mean?
    Passive aggressiveness or insidious machinations are more the ENTJ thing to do imo/e
    I do know what you mean here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Perhaps this is part of the difference between m / f INTPs?
    The women haven't been tainted by the culture of (either male -because they're not-, or female -because they don't identify) entitlement.
    Yes. I think this might be it. Certainly you see INTP men whine a lot more about not being appreciated / understood by women.

    Gosh. So full of judgements I don't know where to start!
    Consider that your wants are not as transparent to everyone else as they are to you? Sometimes, it is necessary, or just courteous, to join the dots for other people too.

    All we are interested in controlling is access to our own space. We have no interest in encroaching upon the space of others.

    ESTJ men can be a lot of fun. ESFJ man is a disaster for INTP woman.
    Another person's Fe cannot "make up for" your own lack. It can beat you over the head though.
    Te and Ti are much less incompatible. Although...Brrrrrrr!
    Different strokes.

    About the Fe I just meant that the ESFJ will generally not mind being the one sort of driving the relationship by being open and engaging. Their warmth overcomes our typical reserve. I disagree about Ti and Te. I have some great relationships qith both ESTJs and ENTJs . But a lot of times I feel like they let me
    Have my Ti space as in If I'm just diving into something and thinking about it but they don't think it's useful they'll interrupt and want you to do something "useful". Te and always wanting an end goal and Ti being more exploratory ( in these types).


    Don't get me wrong I son'y mean to bash ENtJs. They are awesome, badasses who get stuff done. I just think there's a certain conflicts with INTPs.

  9. #99
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Have you never deliberately stone walled or given the silent treatment to anyone? How about withdrawing from a relationship argument with awareness that you hold information that might impact?

    I own my nature as an ENTJ. We control our environment using Te. It's our first coping strategy so it's something we should learn to tone down, particularly the more aggressive ones. These are facts of my type, both our strength and our weakness.
    Honestly no. Only if I feel that the other person just isn't hearing what Im saying but is being really aggressive will I withdraw and stone wall. It like instead of arguing anymore ill just agree with them until they stop. Usually Im the one who won't give up tying to make th understand me.

    I'm trying to think of ways I am controlling. I think maybe I attempt to control through subversion which is very passive aggressive. If I don't like what someone is doing or telling me to do ill just agree and then do what ever I want.

  10. #100
    sophiloist Kaizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizer View Post
    The 'be a man' statement is more an ENTJ statement.
    As for a fit, it varies and when seeing an ENTJ in comparison with an INTJ the Te+Ni combination seems to be the lesser incisive & potent combination.
    ESTJ males tend to have a lack of insight and seem to be very high on judgement, 'simplicity' and the obviousness of obvious stuff.
    What a pleasing phrase!
    Yes, but when they have a mind to entertain / charm you they can be a lot of fun. Would never work out for me long term with any J.
    yes long term no way cause its either their way or their heads and so for the latter not being stingy with rope supply is the solution + some time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizer View Post
    Overall, the ETJ combination in males gets manifested in traditionalism to a large degree & power dynamics first and everything else later.
    Certanly seems to be case, esp on this forum. Assuming a similar tendency for ETJ women to be more comfortable with traditionalism (and the fact that their judging function is extroverted leads inevitably to this conclusion), this may account for much of the difference in the INTP/ENTJ dynamic.
    yes the inevitability of it and I have heard, even ENTJ males, make statements that are almost preposterous if even scraped by the faintest Ti or a tempered/non-heady Te.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizer View Post
    That + having to explain that to others is very counter productive esp to ESs
    What do you mean?
    The 'simple' way that things 'have to be' combined with their Eness of the brash/non-refined/nuanced kind makes for biting one's lips before one tells them to go to hell.


    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizer View Post
    There is no second opinion about ESJs esp ESJ males.
    I do know what you mean here.
    Yes, cause being male and having dealt with them, might've made it mildly easier. using traditionalism and female roles as scalpels might help.... use axes as your preferred tool cause they seem to really like them... ascendancy defines life for them at the core to a far more basic and 'simple' degree it seems. ESFP males, as contradictory as it might seem, seem to love being ESFJ like and headbutt.
    sympathies for & loyalties to INTP women who have to dealt with that crap.


    As a final note, the auto save function is a great addition
    The answer must be in the attempt
    avy url : natgeocreative Photo

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] I can't tell if I'm INTP, ENTJ, or even INTJ/ENTP.
    By qvercvs in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-20-2016, 07:51 AM
  2. Replies: 29
    Last Post: 10-04-2015, 01:22 PM
  3. [NT] INTP - ENTJ conflict
    By Barlwooh in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-28-2011, 04:53 PM
  4. [NT] INTP & ENTJ relationship
    By Twixt in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 09-22-2010, 07:10 PM
  5. [NT] INTP - ENTJ
    By judges in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 04-27-2009, 12:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO