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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    You ever think that INTPs get it in the neck more often cause we keep correcting people and pointing out flaws? Thus instead of others expecting more of us it's more like "If you're so smart, you f-in do it then!!". As in, more us getting ourselves in that situation over us being placed in it.
    Well, it's a pretty natural response to tell a critic that, if they know all the problems but aren't offering any solutions, why don't THEY just do it?

    Unfortunately, being an information-based troubleshooter who just wants to define everything without actually doing it sets INTPs up for the fall.

    I think that's why a lot of INTPs might not engage. Because if you do, you run the risk of getting dragged into the mess.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's sort of funny, as I get older the more I'm starting to learn how to do this, for the very same reasons. For a long time, though, I just floated and thought I'd have enough energy to make things happen despite the outer disorg. So it sounds like you do it more instinctually.
    I guess it is. I think I really figured it out during middle school, when the school made us wake up too early -- I figured out a morning schedule so I could still be 'asleep' from the time I 'woke up' to the time the first bell rang.

    You can keep talking about the contrast here, I find it very informative.

    Externally, in a lot of ways, NJs and SJs look similar depending on their Je function. SJs I think have more consistency between external and internal, it helps to hear that external for the NJ isn't necessarily reflective of internal.

    This also helps explain to me why I read ENxJ better than INxJ. (The extroverts are operating primarily in the visible world, so I'm getting a good read on them even if I don't quite grasp their secondary; the introverts only show me their secondary and i can't get to the core Ni, and the signals are clashing with the ISxJ patterns I've learned.)
    Well, the thing about the method is as long as it works...

    For example, I have two laundry baskets in my room right now -- one full of last week's clothes, which were cleaned, and one full of this week's clothes which I've worn. At the end of the week, I wash the clothes in the dirty basket and then it becomes the 'clean' basket. I dump the excess clothes in the old clean basket into the new clean basket and the old clean basket becomes the dirty basket for the week.

    Now, why don't I put my laundry away like a normal person? Because I don't want to. It's valuable time that I could be wasting on MBTIc, so why would I? This way gives me a clear method of telling which clothes are dirty and which are clean without only going by smell. It may not be pretty, but it's simple, painless, and thoughtless. I didn't think to make this system, it just kind of happened. In fact, I'd say it was an accident. My brother left for college, so all of the sudden there was an extra laundry basket in the house, so I ended up using it.

    It annoys my (ISFJ) mother to death, though. XD

    I don't know. I have a feeling that people don't perceive me the same way I perceive myself. So criticism is usually helpful, because even if I don't follow, it gives me a clue as to what the hell is going on 'outside.'
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    It annoys my (ISFJ) mother to death, though. XD
    I'm sure.

    I don't know. I have a feeling that people don't perceive me the same way I perceive myself. So criticism is usually helpful, because even if I don't follow, it gives me a clue as to what the hell is going on 'outside.'
    See I think of these systems, then something in the environment gets in my way and I just accommodate it and things go to pot.

    The two basket thing isn't a bad idea if the visual is acceptable. I was still trying to hang up all my clothes. I had a basket of laundry, everything in the dryer. I dried it on Sunday. It's still next to the bed... this time with everything else dumped in. (All the dirty stuff just gets pitched in the closet on the floor in front of the washer right now.)

    It's because I haven't committed the 5-10 minutes it would take to hang up everything. So I end up living out of this basket. I don't actually like the basket, I'd rather have them hanging (easier to see and pick out clothes and know what I've got to choose from)... but I'm SO bad at keeping a system running. IOW, I have trouble implementing a total solution like yours, I end up having larger ideas, then flex and never even do the minimal amount.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm sure.



    See I think of these systems, then something in the environment gets in my way and I just accommodate it and things go to pot.

    The two basket thing isn't a bad idea if the visual is acceptable. I was still trying to hang up all my clothes. I had a basket of laundry, everything in the dryer. I dried it on Sunday. It's still next to the bed... this time with everything else dumped in. (All the dirty stuff just gets pitched in the closet on the floor in front of the washer right now.)

    It's because I haven't committed the 5-10 minutes it would take to hang up everything. So I end up living out of this basket. I don't actually like the basket, I'd rather have them hanging (easier to see and pick out clothes and know what I've got to choose from)... but I'm SO bad at keeping a system running. IOW, I have trouble implementing a total solution like yours, I end up having larger ideas, then flex and never even do the minimal amount.
    Well... I don't feel like I spend a lot of energy on it, but I do ration my time. "If I do ____ at ____ time then I have time to do ____ later and if I go out at _____ then I'll have the _____ by the time I need to _____..." and it goes on and on and on. Things that must happen are always given time to happen, and if I don't envision what it's supposed to be like at the end then I definitely won't have the concentration to make it happen. If it's something that I don't like to do, I just have to remember that it will be over. And thus, it happens anyway.

    Sustaining life is demanding and boring, but you know, I want to live, so I do it anyway. Plans to do this fall into place quite easily, and these plans always allow me time for what I want to do. These plans are never written down (if I think I'll forget, at most I'll write it on my hand) and usually just happen. If something sudden comes up, that sudden thing needs to be accomodated for, but first and foremost the goals are to 1) survive 2) give the mind space and time to play. I'd like to put 'play' first, but if I'm sick or otherwise not maintained, I know that play won't be any fun.

    The only thing that really requires a lot of attention for me that's 'normal' is food. I've fallen into a few periods where I more or less didn't eat because it wasn't part of the 'schedule,' and I didn't even realize, and other times when the food fell into repetition I lost all drive to eat because it was so boring. So, food is special and gets special consideration. Every other task just falls into place.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    For example, I have two laundry baskets in my room right now -- one full of last week's clothes, which were cleaned, and one full of this week's clothes which I've worn. At the end of the week, I wash the clothes in the dirty basket and then it becomes the 'clean' basket. I dump the excess clothes in the old clean basket into the new clean basket and the old clean basket becomes the dirty basket for the week.
    Ooo, thanks! I would never have thought of this, but it might put an end to arguments with my son, who doesn't want to take the time to fold and put away his clothes, either. What happens is that he takes a basket of clean clothes to his room and pulls stuff out to wear. Unfortunately, he ends up throwing the dirty clothes into the same basket, or dumping it all on the floor. Personally, I don't really care whether he puts his clothes away, but I do care that he wears clean clothes on a semi-regular basis. A second laundry basket might just satisfy us both.

  6. #16
    Magical Firelie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    For example, I have two laundry baskets in my room right now -- one full of last week's clothes, which were cleaned, and one full of this week's clothes which I've worn. At the end of the week, I wash the clothes in the dirty basket and then it becomes the 'clean' basket. I dump the excess clothes in the old clean basket into the new clean basket and the old clean basket becomes the dirty basket for the week.
    I do the same thing most of the time, minus the 2nd basket (my dirty clothing ends up in a pile where the basket should be in my closet, and the basket, filled with clean clothing, is right outside the closet door). Unfortunately for me, my job requires that I dress professionally, so I've had to start hanging stuff up to keep it from wrinkling. Sigh.

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