[INTP] INTP - married, infidelity, cheating, emo. affair

[Cypocalypse]

Anyway, going back to INTP flirting.

Emo affair is something hard to define. It's a kinda contemporary concept, often times overlooked. Heck, even the people involved in this may not even know that they're into one because we often define cheating in the context of sexual relationship.

But, I'm willing to bet that an INTP can pull off an emo affair with a better deal of proficiency than being that social person in wide groups. It's too hard for an INTP to pull off the latter.

Like I said earlier, what we INTPs lack in proficiency in large group dynamics, we make it up though forging closer ties. Women, being the more socially proficient gender, would be the default choice for that.

I define my social life in that set-up, good thing that my girlfriend understands though others can sometimes find it unconventional.

 

[treeleaning]

So when some woman comes along who seems imaginative, and slightly quirky/unpredictable/mysterious, and able to follow what he's saying and even push him a bit ahead of himself....well, there is a zap or connection there, he gets a jolt off it.

I did do a few things quite unpredictable - and honestly it was strange - I think it turned him on...when that is just my usualy M.O. for functioning in life - finding loopholes, skirting rules within reason, using my creativity to get the job done...

(And ultimately in this case, I still go with PP's assessment.... get out of there. Even if you are attracted to him. He has to resolve his marriage, either way, before anything else happens. If he can't take the responsibility to do that, getting involved with him is only going to get you hurt in the long run, along with the others who are involved; the character flaw will persist and bite you in the tushie, believe me.)

*SIGH* - yes, I agree - if he was flirting and seeking me out this bad - wouldn't this just transfer into another relationship - there could always be this exception that he is heartfully *searching* - but the tendencies are still there. I have thought about this A LOT before I posted and have move through several stages as to getting over him - it does hurt - but I wonder if it hurts him too - probably not as much I'd wager b/c NTs can suppress/detach their emotions more it seems where NF just create a wellspring inside.

 

[Totenkindly]

...*SIGH* - yes, I agree - if he was flirting and seeking me out this bad - wouldn't this just transfer into another relationship - there could always be this exception that he is heartfully *searching* - but the tendencies are still there.

hope is so cruel. *sad smile*

That, maybe, this time, it would be the "real thing."

But Magic Eight Ball says, "hey kid who are you fooling?"

I have thought about this A LOT before I posted and have move through several stages as to getting over him - it does hurt - but I wonder if it hurts him too - probably not as much I'd wager b/c NTs can suppress/detach their emotions more it seems where NF just create a wellspring inside.

I would think it hurts him a lot on the inside. Even if he can detach or act indifferent. And it's not just losing you, but losing "possibilities" for his life to change. A very big broad loss in addition to the specifics of you.

 

[treeleaning]

I would think it hurts him a lot on the inside. Even if he can detach or act indifferent. And it's not just losing you, but losing "possibilities" for his life to change. A very big broad loss in addition to the specifics of you.

I guess it would hurt him... Not to get too off the point, although I think it is quite related, but how do you think animus/anima relates in this. We could have just been projecting onto each other... intensely. Do you think INTP have a particular animus (like a particular type) or would this be more inclined to very specific characteristics based un upbrining - I leaning more towards the latter.

 

[Totenkindly]

I guess it would hurt him... Not to get too off the point, although I think it is quite related, but how do you think animus/anima relates in this. We could have just been projecting onto each other... intensely. Do you think INTP have a particular animus (like a particular type) or would this be more inclined to very specific characteristics based un upbrining - I leaning more towards the latter.

Do you mean like a particular female "counterpart" that would be his missing half so to speak? Who he then might particularly be seeking out or find it almost magical to connect with?

Or, as you say, he was projecting this "dream girl" on you and seeing her even if you didn't completely conform?

I think it would be more specific to the individual as well. People are so different. Some INTP men build very stable relationships with ESFJ women, others can't stand them. (For example.)

i also don't want to sound conventional, but I think the opposite-sex parent has some impact on what feels reassuring/attractive to a person... and parents are obviously different for many people of the same type.

Anyway, people in general usually project on each other to some degree. This is why most people suffer some disillusionment after marriage. They actually had fallen in love with their projection to some degree, rather than truly with the other person in all ways.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

What I have read about INTPs is that they are not prone to affairs.

Where did you read that? Some kind of unbiased survey or someone's blog? It doesn't really make a difference, but I'm curious.

However, I met one who flirted heavily with me, would gappingly, almost open-mouth *stare* at me, get nervous around me, and even sent me shocking FU eyes. I was intrigued... flirted back only to find out this guy is married. I think he is a 5w4. Is this typical?

It's typical for guys who are hesitant about getting close. They'll make millions of advances from a distance, but when you get close, they shy up. If he's INTP, then he's probably self-critical, so his hesitancy might be better chalked up to a fear of abandonment than a fear of cheating, especially if he's making advances towards ya. I wouldn't get hung up on the INTP thing if I were you.

I have read that men sometimes are just looking for an ego boost through flirting. This was not just lite "play flirting", but a bit more intense, and I think he ended up falling for me a bit. Is this just a male thing --- do INTPs just go around seeking attention from women like this?

People with a fear of abandonment might. His fear is triggered by his expectations. In a relationship, his expectations are high, so his abandonment anxiety is high, and he presents a false self instead of a true self, ultimately leading to disconnection and the depression he was trying to avoid. So, he seeks intimacy in other relationships, like friendships with you. He doesn't have much to lose because in his mind, he's not allowed to get attached anyway. Free to be himself, intimacy develops, but the intimacy will scare him in the end when he realizes he's found someone that he can open up to, and now there's something special to lose. Yikes!

Afterthought - do you think INTPs can actively be in love with multiple people at the same time?

This has nothing to do with INTPs. Can people be in love with 2 people at once? It depends on your definition. Love is a sloppy word because it describes being IN LOVE and LOVING someone, which are two different things; e.g., "I love you but I'm not IN LOVE with you." I think we can love without restriction, but I think we can only be IN LOVE with one person at a time. That's my personal view based on experience and observation.

 

[treeleaning]

Where did you read that? Some kind of unbiased survey or someone's blog? It doesn't really make a difference, but I'm curious.

I've read in at least a couple of places, but I can only find these at the moment:
PersonalityPage.com
Once the INTP has committed themself to a relationship, they tend to be very faithful and loyal, and form affectionate attachments which are pure and straight-forward. The INTP has no interest or understanding of game-playing with regards to relationships. However, if something happens which the INTP considers irreconciliable, they will leave the relationship and not look back.

I found this on this page: Re: J/P MBTI Observations in 5's
As NT "analyst" rational types - the INTP and INTJ might have trouble expressing their feelings to one another. Both types are pretty naive and raw when it comes to emotions as it is. Both types are unlikely to cheat with or without commitment so that is a plus. Both types hate to play mind games although they would probably be extremely good at it.
[/quote]

It's typical for guys who are hesitant about getting close. They'll make millions of advances from a distance, but when you get close, they shy up. If he's INTP, then he's probably self-critical, so his hesitancy might be better chalked up to a fear of abandonment than a fear of cheating, especially if he's making advances towards ya. I wouldn't get hung up on the INTP thing if I were you.

This sooo sounds like him. He would make daring long gazes, do things for me, (subtle gestures and little things to make my job easier), but when I came up close he would freak...and say silly things and over-whelmingly compliment me on things - so out of character from the usual the other serious/no-emotion guy-face. He would get all giddy.

People with a fear of abandonment might. His fear is triggered by his expectations. In a relationship, his expectations are high, so his abandonment anxiety is high, and he presents a false self instead of a true self, ultimately leading to disconnection and the depression he was trying to avoid. So, he seeks intimacy in other relationships, like friendships with you. He doesn't have much to lose because in his mind, he's not allowed to get attached anyway. Free to be himself, intimacy develops, but the intimacy will scare him in the end when he realizes he's found someone that he can open up to, and now there's something special to lose. Yikes!

So are you implying that he is afraid of being abandoned by his wife - or just from relationships in general? He seems to have a thread of this fear I sense in him - of wanting things to be just so - not looking ignorant in front of others... (I can sense this too).

This has nothing to do with INTPs. Can people be in love with 2 people at once? It depends on your definition. Love is a sloppy word because it describes being IN LOVE and LOVING someone, which are two different things; e.g., "I love you but I'm not IN LOVE with you." I think we can love without restriction, but I think we can only be IN LOVE with one person at a time. That's my personal view based on experience and observation.

Completely agree with English's scant vocabulary that limits our ability at attempts to express the nuanced degrees of "love." Sometmes "love" in marriages becomes more like familial or brotherly love for some - like a pal - but the "lover" somewhere along the way gets lost. Based on my own personal history I would have to agree with your last statement.

 

[heart]

Really, it just sounds like a work crush of oppurtunity and one that he enjoys feeling in the moment as a distraction, a daydream but not keen to act on.

Ever seen the movie The Secret Life of Walter Mitty?

 

[treeleaning]

Do you mean like a particular female "counterpart" that would be his missing half so to speak? Who he then might particularly be seeking out or find it almost magical to connect with?

Or, as you say, he was projecting this "dream girl" on you and seeing her even if you didn't completely conform?

I think the animus/anima projections stem out of one's unconsciousness and it hits you, *WHAM*, like nothing you've ever experienced before. So, yes, kind of like a "dream girl," but from your unconsciousness mind.

i also don't want to sound conventional, but I think the opposite-sex parent has some impact on what feels reassuring/attractive to a person... and parents are obviously different for many people of the same type.

I think the above it true too - and maybe some people initially do not pick people who resemble their opposite parent initially as a form of rebelling or what have you and then end up longing for something else - just a personal take.

Anyway, people in general usually project on each other to some degree. This is why most people suffer some disillusionment after marriage. They actually had fallen in love with their projection to some degree, rather than truly with the other person in all ways.

This can be true as well, but if you can break through the projections before utter committment and learn to still be together I have heard this can be very rewarding, - tough but rewarding - I think I read this in Joseph Campbell, The power of Myth book...

 

[Totenkindly]

I think the above it true too - and maybe some people initially do not pick people who resemble their opposite parent initially as a form of rebelling or what have you and then end up longing for something else - just a personal take.

Oh, I agree with that, many times influential people (such as parents) impact our choices not just in a positive direction but potentially as a reactive/negative one. (i.e., we react against them, becoming what they're not -- so they STILL have influenced us).

This can be true as well, but if you can break through the projections before utter committment and learn to still be together I have heard this can be very rewarding, - tough but rewarding - I think I read this in Joseph Campbell, The power of Myth book...

Oh, I think any good marriage is based on this.
- Young love = the glamor stuff.
- Then reality sets in and you realize who your partner is.
- If you stick it out and are willing to change/accommodate, then it can even be better than the earlier feelings. Because you've made a true commitment of love to someone else... that sort of thing transforms people.

Once the INTP has committed themself to a relationship, they tend to be very faithful and loyal, and form affectionate attachments which are pure and straight-forward. The INTP has no interest or understanding of game-playing with regards to relationships. However, if something happens which the INTP considers irreconciliable, they will leave the relationship and not look back.

Yes, it's fairly straightforward.

There's no real interest in screwing with someone's head or getting into an emotional tangle full of intrigue and "testing" the other person in the relationship, the way some people do. (Some partners will "set" the other person up or say something to test the response, or want to gauge the other person's loyalties in a subtle way). It's mostly a WYSIWYG approach to things.

This sooo sounds like him. He would make daring long gazes, do things for me, (subtle gestures and little things to make my job easier), but when I came up close he would freak...and say silly things and over-whelmingly compliment me on things - so out of character from the usual the other serious/no-emotion guy-face. He would get all giddy.

You also have to remember that he can do the first part impersonally and even feels comfortable with it... but he doesn't have a lot of practice or confidence with the up-close personal stuff.

Usually being INTP means you figure everything out FIRST and don't go into situations where you feel unknowledgeable or incompetent.

You are truly catching him "naked," so to speak.

So are you implying that he is afraid of being abandoned by his wife - or just from relationships in general? He seems to have a thread of this fear I sense in him - of wanting things to be just so - not looking ignorant in front of others... (I can sense this too).

Yup, like above. Again, since life is based on the intellect, the normal procedure is to understand and figure it out BEFORE taking any action. But now there's fear, because he might fail or look stupid or just make a big blunder.

 

[Cypocalypse]

So when some woman comes along who seems imaginative, and slightly quirky/unpredictable/mysterious, and able to follow what he's saying and even push him a bit ahead of himself....well, there is a zap or connection there, he gets a jolt off it.

Stop taking everything off my head. LOL! *hugs*

I would think it hurts him a lot on the inside. Even if he can detach or act indifferent. And it's not just losing you, but losing "possibilities" for his life to change. A very big broad loss in addition to the specifics of you.

As a male INTP, I won't overblow his possible hang-ups, or whatever that void is. Introverted Thinking can really create a really strong "lie" of making the void appear smaller than what it actually is. And it always work like that.

I guess it would hurt him... Not to get too off the point, although I think it is quite related, but how do you think animus/anima relates in this. We could have just been projecting onto each other... intensely. Do you think INTP have a particular animus (like a particular type) or would this be more inclined to very specific characteristics based un upbrining - I leaning more towards the latter.

Hmmm....come to think of it. My "dream girl" falls in the INFP category. If you've watched the movie 300, you can imagine the set-up between Leonidas and his wife, of how he consults her before going to war, with him having doubts about his endeavor, and he needs the moral support of the wife.

As vivid as my memory is (or any INTP for that matter), I don't think I'm detached from reality that much to envision that perfect archetypal girl to the point of making her almost a surreal entity in my mind, which I daydream about, when at the same time, I have a fully working relationship in the real world. The idea of interacting with an effeminate subconscious is something that happens to me on some occasions, but it doesn't affect me that much to the point of affecting my daily life.

Well, of course, things do get surprising when that archetypal girl shows up in reality--basically manifests in a certain real life person.

 

[treeleaning]

Hmmm....come to think of it. My "dream girl" falls in the INFP category. If you've watched the movie 300, you can imagine the set-up between Leonidas and his wife, of how he consults her before going to war, with him having doubts about his endeavor, and he needs the moral support of the wife.

As vivid as my memory is (or any INTP for that matter), I don't think I'm detached from reality that much to envision that perfect archetypal girl to the point of making her almost a surreal entity in my mind, which I daydream about, when at the same time, I have a fully working relationship in the real world. The idea of interacting with an effeminate subconscious is something that happens to me on some occasions, but it doesn't affect me that much to the point of affecting my daily life.

Well, of course, things do get surprising when that archetypal girl shows up in reality--basically manifests in a certain real life person.

Right, I was telling Jennifer earlier that this guy did share a bit about his personal life with me and even consulted me if he was making the right decision on occasion regarding personal things... *sigh* I wish I had that brain-thingy they used on Clementine in The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind...*whish*

 

[entropie]

still surprisingly innovative, how brutal things like, love "could be working" are over-read xD

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I've read in at least a couple of places, but I can only find these at the moment:
PersonalityPage.com
Once the INTP has committed themself to a relationship, they tend to be very faithful and loyal, and form affectionate attachments which are pure and straight-forward. The INTP has no interest or understanding of game-playing with regards to relationships. However, if something happens which the INTP considers irreconciliable, they will leave the relationship and not look back.

I found this on this page: Re: J/P MBTI Observations in 5's
As NT "analyst" rational types - the INTP and INTJ might have trouble expressing their feelings to one another. Both types are pretty naive and raw when it comes to emotions as it is. Both types are unlikely to cheat with or without commitment so that is a plus. Both types hate to play mind games although they would probably be extremely good at it.

Yeah. . . . . . . . . . I think those are all BS. Real research is a little bit different, but even then, you can't really know if your generalization applies.

This sooo sounds like him. He would make daring long gazes, do things for me, (subtle gestures and little things to make my job easier), but when I came up close he would freak...and say silly things and over-whelmingly compliment me on things - so out of character from the usual the other serious/no-emotion guy-face. He would get all giddy.

Yep. The overwhelming complimentary nature, lame jokes, hyper-intellectualism are all signals of false-self covering abandonment anxiety.

So are you implying that he is afraid of being abandoned by his wife - or just from relationships in general? He seems to have a thread of this fear I sense in him - of wanting things to be just so - not looking ignorant in front of others... (I can sense this too).

In general, he's afraid of being abandoned by love objects. I'm not saying this is FOR SURE, since all you said was he gets close and hesitates, but it sounds pretty typical. Maybe you started as a friend and moved into the love-object category.

If it's true, you can make some predictions about his behavior. Once he gets tired of conjuring the false self, he'll use a different defense mechanism like avoidance/devaluation. He'll seem suddenly less interested in you as a way to abate his investment and thereby, his anxiety. He might seem a little less stressed, but he'll still be tired in having to maintain a certain image of you in order to feel kinda hopeless about you. Keep an eye out! You might be able to help him out by bringing some of this stuff up in a clever way. Any book on abandonment anxiety would be a cool gift.

Completely agree with English's scant vocabulary that limits our ability at attempts to express the nuanced degrees of "love." Sometmes "love" in marriages becomes more like familial or brotherly love for some - like a pal - but the "lover" somewhere along the way gets lost. Based on my own personal history I would have to agree with your last statement.

So would I.

 

[Domino]

Yeah. . . . . . . . . . I think those are all BS.

Truth, spoken with a smile. A round yellow smile.

 

[treeleaning]

Yeah. . . . . . . . . . I think those are all BS. Real research is a little bit different, but even then, you can't really know if your generalization applies.



Yep. The overwhelming complimentary nature, lame jokes, hyper-intellectualism are all signals of false-self covering abandonment anxiety.



In general, he's afraid of being abandoned by love objects. I'm not saying this is FOR SURE, since all you said was he gets close and hesitates, but it sounds pretty typical. Maybe you started as a friend and moved into the love-object category.

If it's true, you can make some predictions about his behavior. Once he gets tired of conjuring the false self, he'll use a different defense mechanism like avoidance/devaluation. He'll seem suddenly less interested in you as a way to abate his interest and his anxiety. He might seem a little less stressed, but he'll still be tired in having to maintain a certain image of you in order to feel kinda hopeless about you. Keep an eye out!

Yeah, he did this. Saying "avoidance" remarks to me - and honestly, being a little "intentionally" mean. I let them blow past and never called him on it - it was confusing...

You might be able to help him out by bringing some of this stuff up in a clever way. Any book on abandonment anxiety would be a cool gift.

That a great idea, BUT I think it may be a tad awkward to present someone with this... but maybe somehow. You've given me a lot of food for thought. I just really like this guy a lot (obviously) and want him to be happy in his life - (with or without) me.

How is the giddy/hyper-active vs. the paralyzed avoidance any different that the "push/pull" of game playing? Granted it is more abrupt with the mixed signals - more severe, but I would like to hear an INTPs take on this.

Curious - what do you think are the top reasons you would *look* outside your relationship?

 

[Poser]

I feel like I just got interested in a cancelled show. I wonder how all of this turned out?

I don't think the phases Edahn was referring to would be part of a game or part of an intentional play by the INTP to further your interest. That is how I would see it as different than game playing.

I don't think anyone *looks* outside their relationship. Well, I guess there could always be some that say "Great, I am in a committed relationship. Let's see what else is out there now!", but I would think they would be in the minority. That doesn't explain the large percentage of people that cheat. I think the majority would be people that have things missing in their relationships and end up finding it in someone else without looking.

 

[Jack Flak]

There's a ton of great interpersonal behavior analysis in this thread. What I would add has basically been said by others in their words.

Regarding some side convos:

Generalization, but unrelentingly accurate so far: SJs do very little to attract me, even if they're carved out of marble. I know better than to attempt even a close friendship there, let alone a romantic relationship. Clashing over everything would never stop. And of course there's no spark, no spark 'tall.

The above is much less true with regard to INFPs, but with increased closeness comes increased value conflict, in line with Jennifer's comments. I tend to prefer admiring the INFP from a safe distance. It would be erroneous to assume the INTP discussed in the OP is my long lost mental twin, but if he were I would certainly think the x in treeleaning's xNFP were an E.

 

[Bella]

There's a ton of great interpersonal behavior analysis in this thread. What I would add has basically been said by others in their words.

Regarding some side convos:

Generalization, but unrelentingly accurate so far: SJs do very little to attract me, even if they're carved out of marble. I know better than to attempt even a close friendship there, let alone a romantic relationship. Clashing over everything would never stop. And of course there's no spark, no spark 'tall.

The above is much less true with regard to INFPs, but with increased closeness comes increased value conflict, in line with Jennifer's comments. I tend to prefer admiring the INFP from a safe distance. It would be erroneous to assume the INTP discussed in the OP is my long lost mental twin, but if he were I would certainly think the x in treeleaning's xNFP were an E.

It hurts to be dissed by you....seriously.

 

[Jack Flak]

It hurts to be dissed by you....seriously.

Oops. There's someone for everyone though, don't take it personally.