• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NT] NTs.

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Why dont we try and name all the meritorious NTs in history. Yes, by meritorious I insinuate that we skip the pop-culture buffoons.
 

Dark Razor

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
271
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
You sure Eisenhower was an INTP? I mean he was a General and I would think that it would be quite difficult for an NTP to stay in the military long enough to rise to the rank of a General, I'd think he was an INTJ, though that is just my personal opinion.

Lezgo:
Vladimir Putin: ENTP
Angela Merkel: INTJ
Fidel Castro: ENTJ
Saddam Hussein: ENTJ
Alexander the Great: ENTP
Tony Blair: ENTP

that's it for now, dont know much about American presidents unfortunately.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
INTP and not an INTJ?

Support that assertion with argument?
 

Chloe relic

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13
How about Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Carl Sagan, etc.? I'm not really into typing folks too specifically, but surely there are some NTs from among the scientists of history.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
How about Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Carl Sagan, etc.? I'm not really into typing folks too specifically, but surely there are some NTs from among the scientists of history.

  • Newton (INTx)
  • Galileo (ENTx)
  • Einstein (INTP)
  • Carl Sagan (INTP, probably)
  • Marie Curie
  • Da Vinci (xNTP)
  • Turner, painter
  • Giger, artist "Alien", etc (definitely N, could be NTP or NxJ)
  • Machiavelli (INTP)
  • Socrates (ENTx)
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
  • Newton (INTx)
  • Galileo (ENTx)
  • Einstein (INTP)
  • Carl Sagan (INTP, probably)
  • Marie Curie
  • Da Vinci (xNTP)
  • Turner, painter
  • Giger, artist "Alien", etc (definitely N, could be NTP or NxJ)
  • Machiavelli (INTP)
  • Socrates (ENTx)


I am appauled at a lack of careful reflection in your assessments.

Machiavelly was an ENTP.

He could not have had a primary Introverted judgment, as he was twisting morality around to support his vision, as theoretical as it was.

Socrates was an INTP. Figuring things out was more important than experiencing ideas and he was observed spending hours standing still in his silent meditations. Notice how Socrates actually tried to answer the big questions by applying logic, yet Machiavelli was not interested in them, he was interested in practical ideas that support his external vision for this he was a political philosopher.

Netwon was an INTP and not an INTJ. We will see more evidence for this if we read up on his biography. Though for one being absent-minded is an INTP property not an INTJ. Ni cant focus internally as well as Ti, it will be running all over the place as it has a lot of ground to cover, Ti can focus on a small apsect easily. I once heard a story about how Newton's servant brough him lunch when he was doing his experiment, his friend showed up and hung around for over 2 hours and was completely unnoticed who then ate his food. And when Newton got through with his work he said: Wow, I would not have even known that I ate today had there not been material proof.

Galileo was much like Socrates in a sense that he was internally focused and used logic to figure out the biggest questions in life. Definitely a perceiver than a judger, you dont find too many ENTJs in science or philosophy.

ENTPs tend to be political philosophers and if metaphysicians at all they gravitate towards naturalism, they are concerned with the practical ideas more than with theoretical. They also have a penchat for chaos theories, this is how you tell an ENTP apart from an INTP, one is a very systematic thinker and the other not at all.



Hume and Dewey are excellent examples of how ENTPs gravitate towards chaos theories, Machiavelli's work outlines the way Ne tends to work in philosophy. Though the best example of an ENTP as a thinker would definitely be Voltaire who was not too concerned with deep meditation or profound insights, just with visions that can really change the external world.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
You sure Eisenhower was an INTP? I mean he was a General and I would think that it would be quite difficult for an NTP to stay in the military long enough to rise to the rank of a General, I'd think he was an INTJ, though that is just my personal opinion.

Lezgo:
Vladimir Putin: ENTP
Angela Merkel: INTJ
Fidel Castro: ENTJ
Saddam Hussein: ENTJ
Alexander the Great: ENTP
Tony Blair: ENTP

that's it for now, dont know much about American presidents unfortunately.

To all of this we should add the ENTJ Margaret Thatcher

Some assert that Putin is an INTP, but I doubt it despite his witless presentation style.

Gore is probably an ENTP too.
 

Hustler

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2
MBTI Type
INTP
I'd be interested to see a list of people who have actually taken the MBTI and come out as NTs, and which type of NTs. It seems, however, that such information isn't so easy to come by. I find speculation on the types of historical figures in a thread like this, where people tend to type said figures with incomplete information and severe biases very uninteresting. Anyone know of any sites where you can find type info on famous people who have actually taken the MBTI?
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I am appauled at a lack of careful reflection in your assessments.

Yes. That must have been it. I did not reflect carefully enough upon these historical figures, so I ended up not typing them as you had.

In any case, Hustler's correct in that most of us are acting from limited knowledge... which is why I don't feel like debating with you, I simply don't have enough evidence to make it worth that level of investment.

Still, looking at the angles here, you seem to base your assessment on mostly an exploration of their philosophy (which I think can be limiting), whereas I come at it from a "look and feel" POV -- I've read general biographies at some point of them and was interested not in just their basic philosophies but also how they "appeared" from the outside and how they interacted with others... i.e., a more holistic approach.

In any case, since I haven't done any serious research on most of these people, I can't really debate anything. And, unfortunately, most were dust in their graves before MBTI was even conjectured.
 

jnpl0011

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
9
MBTI Type
INTJ
First off, Macchiavelli is often very misunderstood. All Macchiavelli commentators that I am aware of agree that he was only attempting to write a piece on Realpolitik, and demonstrating reality, not showing how one should rule a government. He was only showing, as a matter of history, what seems to have worked. Thus, it also depends on your interpretation of the philosophy as to how you might type the individual.

That said, typing historical figures like this is problematic at best. You find attempts at this all over the internet, but everyone comes up with different answers, depending on which qualities they are concentrating on. So, there is absolutely no reason to be "appauled" at one's admission that there is not enough information to judge. And, people can act any number of ways in public and completeyl different in private. There is also the fact that preference strength can be very strong or very weak, making some people nearly impossible to type, much less people who we have relatively little personal information about.

Also, just because a person is known for displaying certain qualities, that is not strong argument for whether or not they are a certain type. We all have different qualities that are usually associated with certain mental functions, but just because one or two characteristics are well-known and acknowledged, doesn't mean they display other characteristics of that type. You are not being careful and critical enough about your generalizations.

For example, I am extremely absent-minded. But I always test as a strong J (INTJ) and never a P. This could also be because of what is actually causing this characteristic. It may often be one cause for one type and another cause for another type. I am usually absent-minded because I am thinking about all of the things that I need to accomplish on a given day, which most agree to be more of a J characteristic.

I am willing to bet real money that none of you know any of these people and are therefore in no position to type them except for a speculative kick. And even if you did know them, typing is still difficult unless you know someone particularly intimately.
 

Zergling

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,377
MBTI Type
ExTJ
Saddam Hussein: ENTJ

Definitely not from what I've heard. Saddam hussein seems an easy typing of I or ESTP. Saddam Hussein seemed to be a bit wild in a lot of ways, making snap decisions a lot, changing things around, and such.
 

nom4d

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
4
MBTI Type
INTP
Machiavelli could easily have been INTP.

Something that should be understood is that he didn't agree with what he wrote in the Prince as how government should be run, it was just what he saw.

If you read Discourses you will see what he actually advocated.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Machiavelli could easily have been INTP.

Something that should be understood is that he didn't agree with what he wrote in the Prince as how government should be run, it was just what he saw.

If you read Discourses you will see what he actually advocated.

Machiavelli was more of a visionary than a problem solver. He was more concerned with politics and the social sciences like Ne would, whereas Ti would prefer to solve complex problems instead.
 

rivercrow

shoshaku jushaku
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
1,555
MBTI Type
type
I'd be interested to see a list of people who have actually taken the MBTI and come out as NTs, and which type of NTs. It seems, however, that such information isn't so easy to come by. I find speculation on the types of historical figures in a thread like this, where people tend to type said figures with incomplete information and severe biases very uninteresting. Anyone know of any sites where you can find type info on famous people who have actually taken the MBTI?

I've never seen anything like this. My guess is that, unless the famous people are involved with Type and have a reason to disclose, a list like this won't exist. Type results are considered confidential information.

Type speculation can be entertaining to the extent that it's a game and not taken seriously. Beyond that, I find it tiresome and troubling.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Machiavelli was more of a visionary than a problem solver. He was more concerned with politics and the social sciences like Ne would, whereas Ti would prefer to solve complex problems instead.

I think you're reading too much into that, and not weighing the impact of environment and society/culture enough.

From what I understand, he wrote The Prince mostly to gain/keep support from the ruling family of the time (Medici's?), so that he could survive and work on his own things. In terms of his extroversion tendencies, he really did not seem to possess those sorts of inclinations; he'd rather be by himself.

And (someone correct me if this is off), wasn't he involved with a monastery as well at least for awhile? He seemed to have reclusive tendencies.

I'm not sure if the Prince was just a description of the current state of politics; it also seemed to be an apt description of the "logical" way to run a country, if one is a sensing type and wants to maintain control and eradicate uncertainty. As an extension of "power," the methodology expressed seems sound and logical to me. However, it purposefully ignores the notion that giving up some control and passing it to those under you and winning their respect and love has the potential to create an even stronger, more cohesive society... unfortunately, one that cannot be controlled by the Powers That Be because everyone has choice to invest or not.
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
I'm not sure if the Prince was just a description of the current state of politics; it also seemed to be an apt description of the "logical" way to run a country, if one is a sensing type and wants to maintain control and eradicate uncertainty. As an extension of "power," the methodology expressed seems sound and logical to me. However, it purposefully ignores the notion that giving up some control and passing it to those under you and winning their respect and love has the potential to create an even stronger, more cohesive society... unfortunately, one that cannot be controlled by the Powers That Be because everyone has choice to invest or not.

I always read The Prince as an N attempting to frame it in a way that was acceptable in that period, and to an audience that wouldn't be interested in just theory.

However, the concept of allowing the weak to rule the strong wasn't really in existance the way it is now (well, arguably so, anyway). I don't believe it was purposely done - afterall, he argued for empowering new states by arming them to encourage loyalty and increase the strength of the conquered states. It was merely the concept of self-rule that was foreign at the time.
 
Last edited:

nom4d

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
4
MBTI Type
INTP
According to the research I've done on Machiavelli he helped depose the ruler (Medici?) some years earlier and with the return of Medici he was tortured and exiled. The Prince seems equal part cynicism, insult, and handbook.

If you follow your history Machiavelli spent a great deal of time as the second of the most successful general of his day (whom was known for being rather bloody) and at one point was a military leader in Florence. The Prince appears to be a method of providing a gift of value into the hands of someone too stupid to properly comprehend a) its meaning and b) the insults contained within.
 

"?"

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
INTPs- Woodrow Wilson and Henry Ford
ENTP- Nikola Tesla
ENTJ- MacArthur
 

MllePop

New member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
8
MBTI Type
INTP
Justin Timberlake is an INTJ.

It's okay; you can tell me he's a "pop culture buffoon." I can come back at that :)
 
Top