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[ENTP] ENTP's and Ethics

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WALMART

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I've read in a few places, and maybe they've been wrong, that ENTP's are of low moral character.

I feel I have a rather strong code of ethics.



Can anyone elaborate?
 

RaptorWizard

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The Joker is an unethical ENTP.
joker22.jpg
 

Winds of Thor

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It depends on the cost of an action. What's the worst that can happen? That's a question that's wise to ask if there's a concern. And being careful in choosing and also sticking to the choice made if ethics is concerned.
 

CrystalViolet

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Most of the ENTP's I've met while not always classically ethical, have an internal logic to their actions. At least that's what it seems like to me.
I do have an ENTP in my current circle who strikes me as amoral. Mostly I adore ENTP's from a far, I don't adore this one so much. It's not so much she's a bad person, as she has little awareness (or really cares) how much trouble she causes around her. She seems proud of it when she becomes aware of it! Most ENTP's don't necessarily delight in hurt feelings ( more like they are puzzled by it. It's not vindictictive. It's just a little too detached for that. Her emotional games are just extremely distructive.
 
W

WALMART

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Most of the ENTP's I've met while not always classically ethical, have an internal logic to their actions. At least that's what it seems like to me.
I do have an ENTP in my current circle who strikes me as amoral. Mostly I adore ENTP's from a far, I don't adore this one so much. It's not so much she's a bad person, as she has little awareness (or really cares) how much trouble she causes around her. She seems proud of it when she becomes aware of it! Most ENTP's don't necessarily delight in hurt feelings ( more like they are puzzled by it. It's not vindictictive. It's just a little too detached for that. Her emotional games are just extremely distructive.


Hm, internal logic. That makes sense. So sometimes maybe it doesn't jive with external forces?

I feel an unhealthy entp would be a headache =(
 

Winds of Thor

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Most of the ENTP's I've met while not always classically ethical, have an internal logic to their actions. At least that's what it seems like to me.

Yes. The 'internal logic' as you say..it's highly-structured even though they seem cool or goofy. Seriously.

I think some, but certainly not all, but mainly an ENTPs work-related beliefs are usually based some on logic and some on logic from things which can be counter-intuitive. They will sort through all the possibilities and sometimes pick the counter-intuitive things they see. And those answers aren't always obvious ones.
 

CrystalViolet

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Hm, internal logic. That makes sense. So sometimes maybe it doesn't jive with external forces?

I feel an unhealthy entp would be a headache =(
A good friend of mine, who was definitely ENTP, had a tendency to disregard the law a lot. He shop lift on regular basis, and he just didn't need to, stuff like that. One day he explained to me why. It was essentially one of the most idealistic life philisophies I've ever heard, and no one could dispute the logic. This is a fifty year old man! Not very ethical, but upon further examination, he was morally pure. I actually honestly think if more people thought like him, the world would be a happier place.
ENTP's are always bat shit crazy in the best possible way, but an unhealthily one is destructive in a way no other type can be. They like to challenge, or stand current beliefs on their heads. An unhealthily one seems not to understand some things you can't stir up without a significant amount of damage.
 
G

Ginkgo

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I think most ENTPs have a sense of ethics, it's just that their minds are so dynamic that over time their ethics are bound to change, ultimately resulting in far-strung double standards for different people they've ruled out in different ways.
 

Sunshine

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I've read in a few places, and maybe they've been wrong, that ENTP's are of low moral character.

That's just flat out not true. Or at least it's not any more true of ENTPs than any of the other 15 types. And it irritates me that idiotic associations like this are made.

I'm sure that there are plenty of immoral ENTPs out there but just because someone is an ENTP doesn't automatically make them immoral.

Morality is not type related.
 
W

WALMART

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That's just flat out not true. Or at least it's not any more true of ENTPs than any of the other 15 types. And it irritates me that idiotic associations like this are made.

I'm sure that there are plenty of immoral ENTPs out there but just because someone is an ENTP doesn't automatically make them immoral.

Morality is not type related.


That's what I thought, but the popularity of the claim was astounding...

Then again, how much reading do I do about other types?
 
G

Ginkgo

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That's just flat out not true. Or at least it's not any more true of ENTPs than any of the other 15 types. And it irritates me that idiotic associations like this are made.

I'm sure that there are plenty of immoral ENTPs out there but just because someone is an ENTP doesn't automatically make them immoral.

Morality is not type related.

I think that seeing someone as either morally superior or inferior to oneself is a symptom of a lacking in psychological health. Everyone has the potential for the greatest good or the greatest evil; the record of deeds we accrue over time is not a steady instrument for determining what we can do.
 

Sunshine

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I think that seeing someone as either morally superior or inferior to oneself is a symptom of a lacking in psychological health. Everyone has the potential for the greatest good or the greatest evil; the record of deeds we accrue over time is not a steady instrument for determining what we can do.

Those are interesting thoughts but we're not talking about how individuals define morality or how they judge whether or not someone is moral.

We're talking about a certain very false perception of ENTPs and their moral character.
 
G

Ginkgo

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Those are interesting thoughts but we're not talking about how individuals define morality or how they judge whether or not someone is moral.

We're talking about a certain very false perception of ENTPs and their moral character.

We can't really come to a conclusion about the moral character of ENTPs without addressing the issue of morality. Moral character is a personal disposition towards morality that dictates choices. This disposition is shaped by every function one possesses and governed by the whole character, which is filled with contents of culture and experience. Then, there is no reason for ENTPs to be either lacking or gaining in moral character from a theoretical standpoint. I'd imagine that people tend to think ENTPs are immoral because ENTPs shell out possibilities, sometimes disrupting the status quo. I know an ENTP who does this quite frequently, but on the other hand he's called me out for exploiting rules. Underneath the variations of behavior, I think we both possess the same motivation to be good and virtuous at times, even though we both go about it in different ways.
 

Sunshine

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Ah okay now I see what you're saying.

ETA: and yeah that makes sense.
 
R

RDF

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All personality types have their signature strengths and weaknesses.

For example: INFPs, with their dominant Fi, are strong in compassion and values; they have signature weaknesses in terms of being over-sensitive and defensive. I acknowledge those weaknesses in myself.

As for ENTPs, with their dominant Ne they are strong in terms of imagination and vision. As for their downside:

[...] Without a well developed thinking function, the ENTP is always in danger of leaping over social, financial and personal constraints for the sake of following a new vision. [...]

Without a solid thinking function, the ENTP can easily discount or fail to notice the essential ethics of social and interpersonal relationship, often considering themselves "above" or untouched by such limiting values and often discounting the possibility that their actions might be or hurtful or seen as unethical by others. It is not that the one sided ENTP is deliberately hurtful, but simply ignorant of the effects which can flow from their often compulsive need for change or need to show how clever or individual they are. [...]

[Taken from here:] http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENTP_per.html

Notice that the description at PersonalityPage.com doesn’t call ENTPs immoral or unethical. It says that ENTPs may tend to take “leaps of perception” in general, which may include ignoring conventional ethical constraints.
 

segovois

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I love ENTP ethic : strong, personnal (sound sometimes chaotic but always rationnal) and not sugary at all.

Seems a bit like the one of the ENFP but more ruthless
 
S

Society

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i think ENTP morals are maturity-related. when young (teens), tertiary Fe makes us acknowledge and aware of the affect our behavior has on others, but not compelled by it one way or another, it is almost just plain cool to have the ability to change the inner workings and states of others for... well, fun. i think it is common for ENTPs at that stage to experiment with manipulative behavior.

however, with time and continues relationships we learn the practical value of honesty with yourself and others, and as our Fe matures in our twenties, our capacity for moral thinking skyrockets, because unlike many Fe>Ti doms who might be more sensitive to other's feelings to began with, we have a distinct advantage in trying to see what is happening practically to all agents involved rather then settling down on how things socially appear to be, thus helping us to avoid moral hypocritical judgement. this can be a bit crippling if you let your Ne get the better of you and consider all the ways people can get offended and hurt, which is why i think it is very common for ENTPs to be more selective, tribal and relationship oriented, in determining whose feelings are important enough to put on that heavyweight care-pedestal.

in general, i think as an ENTP, morals are less intuitive for you, you practically need to figure them out on your own, but when you do, they are strong. perhaps one of the most common lines of thought for a maturing ENTP is to look back and think "i was such a jerk" (half guilty, half nostalgic about the freedom).

as for Fi and "non hurting people related morals", its in our shadow functions, we lean on it when we are at the most emotional stress, and nothing good ever comes out of that state.
 

Istbkleta

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The ENFP guy from the NF geeks YouTube videos described how INTJs were humble in areas they lacked (like <people have feelings - I don't have the manual for that> INTJ way), while NFs were humble in their strengths, or something along those lines.

Perhaps most NTPs know they suck at deep and honest emotions, so they try to avoid deciding what is right or wrong.

Such ethics are perceived often as amoral.
 
S

Society

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Perhaps most NTPs know they suck at deep and honest emotions, so they try to avoid deciding what is right or wrong.

is that truly that different from how you percieve STPs, SFJs and NFJs? you seem to be describing the basic difference between Fi users and Fe users... your critisizm basically holds to all Fe users (TPs and FJs).
 

Istbkleta

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is that truly that different from how you percieve STPs, SFJs and NFJs? you seem to be describing the basic difference between Fi users and Fe users... your critisizm basically holds to all Fe users (TPs and FJs).

criticism?
I feel like you are baiting me into an argument by intentionally misunderstanding what I am saying.

I think it's an interesting explanation for the relationship between NTPs and personal ethical decisions. Nothing more.
 
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