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  1. #11
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    That's just flat out not true. Or at least it's not any more true of ENTPs than any of the other 15 types. And it irritates me that idiotic associations like this are made.

    I'm sure that there are plenty of immoral ENTPs out there but just because someone is an ENTP doesn't automatically make them immoral.

    Morality is not type related.
    I think that seeing someone as either morally superior or inferior to oneself is a symptom of a lacking in psychological health. Everyone has the potential for the greatest good or the greatest evil; the record of deeds we accrue over time is not a steady instrument for determining what we can do.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I think that seeing someone as either morally superior or inferior to oneself is a symptom of a lacking in psychological health. Everyone has the potential for the greatest good or the greatest evil; the record of deeds we accrue over time is not a steady instrument for determining what we can do.
    Those are interesting thoughts but we're not talking about how individuals define morality or how they judge whether or not someone is moral.

    We're talking about a certain very false perception of ENTPs and their moral character.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  3. #13
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Those are interesting thoughts but we're not talking about how individuals define morality or how they judge whether or not someone is moral.

    We're talking about a certain very false perception of ENTPs and their moral character.
    We can't really come to a conclusion about the moral character of ENTPs without addressing the issue of morality. Moral character is a personal disposition towards morality that dictates choices. This disposition is shaped by every function one possesses and governed by the whole character, which is filled with contents of culture and experience. Then, there is no reason for ENTPs to be either lacking or gaining in moral character from a theoretical standpoint. I'd imagine that people tend to think ENTPs are immoral because ENTPs shell out possibilities, sometimes disrupting the status quo. I know an ENTP who does this quite frequently, but on the other hand he's called me out for exploiting rules. Underneath the variations of behavior, I think we both possess the same motivation to be good and virtuous at times, even though we both go about it in different ways.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Ah okay now I see what you're saying.

    ETA: and yeah that makes sense.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  5. #15
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    All personality types have their signature strengths and weaknesses.

    For example: INFPs, with their dominant Fi, are strong in compassion and values; they have signature weaknesses in terms of being over-sensitive and defensive. I acknowledge those weaknesses in myself.

    As for ENTPs, with their dominant Ne they are strong in terms of imagination and vision. As for their downside:

    [...] Without a well developed thinking function, the ENTP is always in danger of leaping over social, financial and personal constraints for the sake of following a new vision. [...]

    Without a solid thinking function, the ENTP can easily discount or fail to notice the essential ethics of social and interpersonal relationship, often considering themselves "above" or untouched by such limiting values and often discounting the possibility that their actions might be or hurtful or seen as unethical by others. It is not that the one sided ENTP is deliberately hurtful, but simply ignorant of the effects which can flow from their often compulsive need for change or need to show how clever or individual they are. [...]

    [Taken from here:] http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENTP_per.html
    Notice that the description at PersonalityPage.com doesn’t call ENTPs immoral or unethical. It says that ENTPs may tend to take “leaps of perception” in general, which may include ignoring conventional ethical constraints.

  6. #16
    Member segovois's Avatar
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    I love ENTP ethic : strong, personnal (sound sometimes chaotic but always rationnal) and not sugary at all.

    Seems a bit like the one of the ENFP but more ruthless

  7. #17
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    i think ENTP morals are maturity-related. when young (teens), tertiary Fe makes us acknowledge and aware of the affect our behavior has on others, but not compelled by it one way or another, it is almost just plain cool to have the ability to change the inner workings and states of others for... well, fun. i think it is common for ENTPs at that stage to experiment with manipulative behavior.

    however, with time and continues relationships we learn the practical value of honesty with yourself and others, and as our Fe matures in our twenties, our capacity for moral thinking skyrockets, because unlike many Fe>Ti doms who might be more sensitive to other's feelings to began with, we have a distinct advantage in trying to see what is happening practically to all agents involved rather then settling down on how things socially appear to be, thus helping us to avoid moral hypocritical judgement. this can be a bit crippling if you let your Ne get the better of you and consider all the ways people can get offended and hurt, which is why i think it is very common for ENTPs to be more selective, tribal and relationship oriented, in determining whose feelings are important enough to put on that heavyweight care-pedestal.

    in general, i think as an ENTP, morals are less intuitive for you, you practically need to figure them out on your own, but when you do, they are strong. perhaps one of the most common lines of thought for a maturing ENTP is to look back and think "i was such a jerk" (half guilty, half nostalgic about the freedom).

    as for Fi and "non hurting people related morals", its in our shadow functions, we lean on it when we are at the most emotional stress, and nothing good ever comes out of that state.

  8. #18
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    The ENFP guy from the NF geeks YouTube videos described how INTJs were humble in areas they lacked (like <people have feelings - I don't have the manual for that> INTJ way), while NFs were humble in their strengths, or something along those lines.

    Perhaps most NTPs know they suck at deep and honest emotions, so they try to avoid deciding what is right or wrong.

    Such ethics are perceived often as amoral.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    Perhaps most NTPs know they suck at deep and honest emotions, so they try to avoid deciding what is right or wrong.
    is that truly that different from how you percieve STPs, SFJs and NFJs? you seem to be describing the basic difference between Fi users and Fe users... your critisizm basically holds to all Fe users (TPs and FJs).

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    is that truly that different from how you percieve STPs, SFJs and NFJs? you seem to be describing the basic difference between Fi users and Fe users... your critisizm basically holds to all Fe users (TPs and FJs).
    criticism?
    I feel like you are baiting me into an argument by intentionally misunderstanding what I am saying.

    I think it's an interesting explanation for the relationship between NTPs and personal ethical decisions. Nothing more.

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