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  1. #281
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Yes, thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    My perspective on energy and spells is probably different from Greenfairy's,
    Nah, not too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    but here goes. First, I consider any energy I work with to be real, simply because it gets results. No results doesn't necessarily imply no energy - perhaps I did not collect or use it correctly - but I have had enough results to know it works. I would not equate any of this with scientifically observable forms of energy. Apropos of your second paragraph, it might just be my own internal mental or even emotional energy.
    Why would you not equate it with scientifically observable forms of energy? Surely you're not saying it's an "unreal" or "unscientific" energy which still exists. Are you saying there are more kinds of energy than science can observe? My thoughts are that it is the same energy, we just lack the tools to observe it in more areas than the strictly physical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    My perspective on spell work is that (1) it is unethical to try to compel the actions of another through a spell, but also (2) it is most effective to use a spell to change yourself rather than the external world. You might call this harmonizing your perspective with reality. I see it more as seeing reality in a different way, such that you realize more options for dealing productively with it. My focus is less on harmony than on results, though harmony does help. It is like swimming with the current, or tacking with the wind, rather than trying to sail directly into it when circumstances appear unfavorable. Yes, this is a rational approach, and often does result in win-win situations when the conflict involves other people.
    Agreed. This is what I was taught as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Of course I operate using the Western paradigm of linear time, but on top of that overlay an appreciation of the cyclic nature of "natural time". This intersects our lives in holidays, observable seasons, even birthdays and other annual events. On top of that goes the cycle of an individual life, repeated through the generations. I suppose this influences not so much what I do every day, but how I see and think about things as I go through the day. And, of course, my spiritual activities.
    Again, are you commenting on the nature of time as being two kinds, or that we have two kinds of perceptions of it and you are overlapping them? If the second, what do you think about the "true" nature of time?

  2. #282
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    @greenfairy I appreciate your well thought out answer to my question!

    One part that got me thinking is when you mentioned the Tao or the Yin-Yang, Forces of existence moving into causation a climactic clash, producing an eternal conflict from which we emerge stronger by surviving the struggle. In this way, in this process of never ending cycles, birth and death, destruction and apocalypse, is the balance of the world forged into form, the chaos of destruction, and the harmony of creation, giving us our current Cosmos. It can of course though be improved in the future by the glories of our grand designs, hence the annihilation of the old world, and the springing into being of new worlds undreampt of in our time. The mere contemplation of these possibilities is a marvel beyond measure!

    Don't take my comment too seriously as I was just playing around the whole good and evil nemesis construct, which of course was quite entertaining right, at least as much so as the boring SJ stories thread I recently resurrected!

  3. #283
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    @greenfairy I appreciate your well thought out answer to my question!

    One part that got me thinking is when you mentioned the Tao or the Yin-Yang, Forces of existence moving into causation a climactic clash, producing an eternal conflict from which we emerge stronger by surviving the struggle. In this way, in this process of never ending cycles, birth and death, destruction and apocalypse, is the balance of the world forged into form, the chaos of destruction, and the harmony of creation, giving us our current Cosmos. It can of course though be improved in the future by the glories of our grand designs, hence the annihilation of the old world, and the springing into being of new worlds undreampt of in our time. The mere contemplation of these possibilities is a marvel beyond measure!

    Don't take my comment too seriously as I was just playing around the whole good and evil nemesis construct, which of course was quite entertaining right, at least as much so as the boring SJ stories thread I recently resurrected!
    Haha yes, much more entertaining than the elderly SJ's.

  4. #284
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Why do you think of yourself as an Fe user, and if you really are one, which seems to be the case, then does Fe have anything to do with your philosophies of peace and harmony, you know, having a holistic view of nature rather than a tenacious tendency to control it like the Te users do?
    The key to controlling nature is figuring out how it wants to be controlled. In other words, working with its own tendencies to shape it to our benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Why would you not equate it with scientifically observable forms of energy? Surely you're not saying it's an "unreal" or "unscientific" energy which still exists. Are you saying there are more kinds of energy than science can observe? My thoughts are that it is the same energy, we just lack the tools to observe it in more areas than the strictly physical.
    Yes, there are many kinds of energy. Some science can readily observe: kinetic, thermal, chemical, nuclear, etc. What we think of as metaphysical energy is different from these, just as these are different from each other. There may very well be more than one kind of metaphysical energy, and some day we may have the scientific means of measuring them as well. Until then, we can still employ them based on empirical, even anecdotal, evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Again, are you commenting on the nature of time as being two kinds, or that we have two kinds of perceptions of it and you are overlapping them? If the second, what do you think about the "true" nature of time?
    It is in physics that time is seen to be not the simple linear progression we all operate under every day. I see time as it applies to spirituality as in fact linear; it is worldly events that turn and cycle. Time is like the cartesian coordinate system, while events are like any kind of plot imaginable, taking place on that canvas.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #285
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    There are a lot of books she can read on the subjects you mention. As she's not on here for me to speak to, I can only advise her to balance her energy, read some books, and find some local pagans in her area she trusts.

    Edit: @Bilateral Entry: perhaps ask @Coriolis.
    Sorry - I have no experience with this sort of thing, and thus no useful advice beyond what Greenfairy has mentioned. Books are good - you should be able to find some decent references online. Better yet, though, if you know someone who is trustworthy and good at handling this sort of overwhelming energy, put your gf in touch with him/her. IME, energy handling is best learned and taught in person.
    Last edited by Coriolis; 11-22-2012 at 12:34 AM. Reason: fixed typo
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #286
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    There's so much freaky shit that I know is probably real, that most people don't believe in because it doesn't receive attention. I haven't read much of this thread (tldr), but I'm pretty sure that paranormal stuff can be observed and measured (i.e. scientifically studied). It's possible, it's just no one really does it, and it's challenging to measure and observe because of its inconsistency. And lack of funding. And lack of general public interest.

    A lotta people think that humanity's current science is good. And in a way it is. And in a way... to believe that what we've discovered and communicated widely is all there is to it is narrow-minded.

    I have ideas that could "change the world" so to speak. A lot of scientific work on the paranormal would change the world. It would be the equivalent of the tech boom (P.S. oh internet, how I love you). I have ideas to make charity organizations bigger than the world's current biggest for-profit corporations. I have ideas that can change human culture and take humanity to the next level. 200 years later people could be looking back and thinking "wow... and they called themselves 'civilized'... they were barbarians back then!" But I often don't feel like doing all that work

  7. #287
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilateral Entry View Post
    There's so much freaky shit that I know is probably real, that most people don't believe in because it doesn't receive attention. I haven't read much of this thread (tldr), but I'm pretty sure that paranormal stuff can be observed and measured (i.e. scientifically studied). It's possible, it's just no one really does it, and it's challenging to measure and observe because of its inconsistency. And lack of funding. And lack of general public interest.

    A lotta people think that humanity's current science is good. And in a way it is. And in a way... to believe that what we've discovered and communicated widely is all there is to it is narrow-minded.

    I have ideas that could "change the world" so to speak. A lot of scientific work on the paranormal would change the world. It would be the equivalent of the tech boom (P.S. oh internet, how I love you). I have ideas to make charity organizations bigger than the world's current biggest for-profit corporations. I have ideas that can change human culture and take humanity to the next level. 200 years later people could be looking back and thinking "wow... and they called themselves 'civilized'... they were barbarians back then!" But I often don't feel like doing all that work
    You should! And I agree about science. We know a lot of things, but science is based upon observation, and our tools for observation are rather limited. There are a lot of things we can't observe in detail right now. There has been scientific study on plant consciousness; people have hooked plants up to electrodes and measured their responses to stimuli- but that hasn't received much attention in the US. Maybe some people think it's explainable in other ways, and it's just confirmation bias or something from my point of view.

  8. #288
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilateral Entry View Post
    There's so much freaky shit that I know is probably real, that most people don't believe in because it doesn't receive attention. I haven't read much of this thread (tldr), but I'm pretty sure that paranormal stuff can be observed and measured (i.e. scientifically studied). It's possible, it's just no one really does it, and it's challenging to measure and observe because of its inconsistency. And lack of funding. And lack of general public interest.

    A lotta people think that humanity's current science is good. And in a way it is. And in a way... to believe that what we've discovered and communicated widely is all there is to it is narrow-minded.

    I have ideas that could "change the world" so to speak. A lot of scientific work on the paranormal would change the world. It would be the equivalent of the tech boom (P.S. oh internet, how I love you). I have ideas to make charity organizations bigger than the world's current biggest for-profit corporations. I have ideas that can change human culture and take humanity to the next level. 200 years later people could be looking back and thinking "wow... and they called themselves 'civilized'... they were barbarians back then!" But I often don't feel like doing all that work
    You should! And I agree about science. We know a lot of things, but science is based upon observation, and our tools for observation are rather limited. There are a lot of things we can't observe in detail right now. There has been scientific study on plant consciousness; people have hooked plants up to electrodes and measured their responses to stimuli- but that hasn't received much attention in the US. Maybe some people think it's explainable in other ways, and it's just confirmation bias or something from my point of view.

  9. #289
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    How do the forces of chaos and harmony bring things into balance?

  10. #290
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    How do the forces of chaos and harmony bring things into balance?
    The universe is a dynamic equilibrium. Chaos is entropy, and harmony is order. Together they form balance. The entity which is reality is continually moving along a continuum of balance and imbalance, like a beating heart. So my answer to how, is that it is an inherent property of existence; it is in a constant state of change, but it never deviates from its internal structure; it just re-creates itself. The structure pulls it back into balance as it is twisting and turning, realigning, and turning inside out.

    This is my theory, anyway.

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