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  1. #211
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    Strategizing and predicting about survival, such as hunting, gathering, weather/climate, migration, medicine. Also, helping to invent and improve symbols, language, and communication. They probably did some metacognition.
    Sounds like what I'm thinking. Probably designing physical structures and drawing sacred symbols on cave walls as well.

  2. #212
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    very unhelpful
    I'm not talking about anything specific. Just speculating on what typology was like 3-10 millennia ago.

  3. #213
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I just didnt know what neolithic means, I am no native speaker. SHould have prolly asked the dictonary but I thought maybe I could find out in discussion
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #214
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Sounds like what I'm thinking. Probably designing physical structures and drawing sacred symbols on cave walls as well.
    Agreed.

  5. #215
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Here's a cool little thing from chemistry. Spontaneous processes go in the direction of the greatest entropy, or randomness. To cause a nonspontaneous reaction, work and energy must be applied. This is a basic underlying process, and reflects the principles of balance and harmony. Chaos (high entropy) is the state of both death and creation. The universe and life goes through cycles of order and chaos, each time rearranging itself in different ways. A billion different permutations of reality. Everything works in cycles, in macrocosm and microcosm. The principle of balance works in macrocosm and microcosm, of general to specific. The way this process relates to humans is the following.
    An interesting exposition, which will bear more careful consideration. At first glance, I have a couple of questions.

    1. In this perspective, what is the source of the work/energy responsible for the increasing complexity of life in the universe?

    2. Are you considering the universe as an isolated system? A system at equilibrium requires an external action to disturb that equilibrium. What, then, would serve that function in our universe?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #216
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    I asked, cause when my cats bring in something dying I tend to focus on the life before me and try to project my knowledge of suffering upon the creature.

    I don't know if it works, but it puts my mind at ease.

  7. #217
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I just didnt know what neolithic means, I am no native speaker. SHould have prolly asked the dictonary but I thought maybe I could find out in discussion
    Oh ok. Sry, didn't think of that.

  8. #218
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    Here is an interesting potential NT witch/alchemist, although she and greenfairy could easily be NF, but who cares!


  9. #219
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    An interesting exposition, which will bear more careful consideration. At first glance, I have a couple of questions.

    1. In this perspective, what is the source of the work/energy responsible for the increasing complexity of life in the universe?

    2. Are you considering the universe as an isolated system? A system at equilibrium requires an external action to disturb that equilibrium. What, then, would serve that function in our universe?
    1. As I understand it, there is no source of energy; there is energy all around, and living beings are concentrated energy. Our cells use ATP and all that. Energy comes from atoms vibrating. The complexity just happens and is a passive process- creating order usually takes work. If the temperature is really low, then movement all but stops, and so substances freeze and can be more rigid and ordered, but then there is no change either, and no life. I didn't go past Chem 120-130, so I'm going to have to research this some more (for the second question too); but for my purposes the principle of spontaneous vs. nonspontaneous is in the context of a system involving living beings and sufficient matter and energy for constant change. The whole universe could be thought of as being in constant change because it includes everything, so dynamic systems will eventually effect static systems, but we are specifically talking about life on Earth.

    2. Once again I'm referring specifically to the Earth, which is an environment which has the particular conditions sufficient for life- and so the global ecosystem is the larger system; smaller systems are ones which are going through cycles of balance and imbalance. I would not consider them closed, so the analogy is not direct. However, the principle still applies; life requires a balance to continue, so it will shift to counteract a disturbance if it is to continue, thus restoring the balance. An ecosystem operates in a dynamic equilibrium so to speak. Chemistry is only a small part of the world, focused on chemical components, but the patterns are reflected in a slightly more complex fashion.

  10. #220
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    What makes you think that the energy you sense is actually there? Sure, you perceive it, but is there anything external which indicates that it's really there. I don't think merely pointing to the existence of biological, atomic, and quantum energy is sufficient to explain this. It seems as if the only external objective indicator is the framework you use to connect the empirically documented energy with your perception of it.

    Similarly, spells seem to parallel this psychologically. From my admittedly limited understanding of them, they simply involve harmonizing one's perspective with reality and attempting to fulfill one's own desires and goals while remaining in harmony with everything else. This just seems like a rational approach based on knowledge of psychology and taking a "win-win" approach with people.

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