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  1. #61
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    If it is about something INTP's are not good at, it would almost surely mean it is about something that isn't much of a mental stimulation, since if it was, the INTP wouldn't likely suck at it.

    In that sense I agree.
    Well I'm taking this from this profile:
    http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html
    "While proficiency may not be a central goal, competence always is. The difference here may be subtle, but it is important. If an INTP decides to learn a skill, then it is very important for him that he reaches a sufficient level so that basic errors can be avoided. Errors made by others are to be expected and can be criticised. But errors made by oneself attack the very root of the person, which is ultimately about rationality, logic and truth. INTPs hate to think of themselves being in any way inadequate, at least in areas that are important to them. So, as soon as he puts himself behind some task, then he must achieve competency. But that is as far as it goes. Refined competency requires too much effort and has little attraction. It would require practice and that usually bores an INTP. Hence, it is common to see INTPs dabbling at many things, achieving competency, just enough to prove to themselves that they could become more proficient if they wished, but rarely actually bothering to refine their skills further. This is a point at which we begin to get a feel for the workings of iNtuition backing up Thinking. The INTP has a whole set of skills which he knows that he would be proficient at, yet other people may know little of this. He is satisfied with the knowledge that he has these skills but often sees no requirement to demonstrate this to others, an indication of the strong Ti nature."

  2. #62
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Well I'm taking this from this profile:
    http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html
    "While proficiency may not be a central goal, competence always is. The difference here may be subtle, but it is important. If an INTP decides to learn a skill, then it is very important for him that he reaches a sufficient level so that basic errors can be avoided. Errors made by others are to be expected and can be criticised. But errors made by oneself attack the very root of the person, which is ultimately about rationality, logic and truth. INTPs hate to think of themselves being in any way inadequate, at least in areas that are important to them. So, as soon as he puts himself behind some task, then he must achieve competency. But that is as far as it goes. Refined competency requires too much effort and has little attraction. It would require practice and that usually bores an INTP. Hence, it is common to see INTPs dabbling at many things, achieving competency, just enough to prove to themselves that they could become more proficient if they wished, but rarely actually bothering to refine their skills further. This is a point at which we begin to get a feel for the workings of iNtuition backing up Thinking. The INTP has a whole set of skills which he knows that he would be proficient at, yet other people may know little of this. He is satisfied with the knowledge that he has these skills but often sees no requirement to demonstrate this to others, an indication of the strong Ti nature."
    And on that I totally agree. Your sentence could be taken out of context though.

    I mean, if I take would adress my interests in becoming a writer, or in the past my efforst at trying to play a music instrument. This is entirely true for me.

    But there have also been areas in which I strive for as much proficiency as possible. Areas that are too important for me to neglect. Writing, playing an instrument, these are all proficiencies in which I find further practice and effort to come at a higher cost(of precious time mainly) than the gain from the proficiency. Areas relating to my work or my strongest interests however do not stop at gaining any level of competency, and would rather strive for perfection. As then the cost of the practice, which in itself is a mental stimulation worthy of my time, would not be higher than the gained proficiency from that practice.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #63
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    My INTJ friend has a stronger sense of tradition than I do. She's an athiest, but continues to practice and participate in major Jewish holidays/cultural events. I think that still maintaining that kind of cultural connection for what else it offers, other than a connection to God (which, for her, obviously doesn't exist), is something I'd have little interest in.

  4. #64
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    And on that I totally agree. Your sentence could be taken out of context though.

    I mean, if I take would adress my interests in becoming a writer, or in the past my efforst at trying to play a music instrument. This is entirely true for me.

    But there have also been areas in which I strive for as much proficiency as possible. Areas that are too important for me to neglect. Writing, playing an instrument, these are all proficiencies in which I find further practice and effort to come at a higher cost(of precious time mainly) than the gain from the proficiency. Areas relating to my work or my strongest interests however do not stop at gaining any level of competency, and would rather strive for perfection. As then the cost of the practice, which in itself is a mental stimulation worthy of my time, would not be higher than the gained proficiency from that practice.
    I agree. And in this I disagree with the article. It seems like Ti is very much the perfectionist in what it touches.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Could be. But some types seem to mind it less than others. INTP's particularly seem to have a habit of just not bothering unless they can immediately be good at something.
    I think I understand. Immediate interaction with the object of study is way more stimulating/exciting than having everything laid out in some order to be memorized and enacted in detail, as if it is a lifeless thing. Then there is nothing spontaneous to take into account - to affect, to see what that brings and how it lays out something new. But I don't think what I'm describing is then Ti/Fe, but Ni/Se. Ti, as I understand it is conceptually all for having/creating order and its social influences (Fe). Ni would be all for understanding the nature of the interacting world (purely an abstract process) and dealing with it in its most pure and objective state as sets/series of objects (Se).

    And I know this approach doesn't agree with profiles and descriptions. But profiles and descriptions seem to be an opinion, anyway, especially if the description is supposed to prove the function, rather than explain the function through the description. After all, for something to be false, we must know what is true; the description must know what it is based on or it has no basis for what is true. Then it just becomes an idea, of which a conflicting idea can exist. What that says about the conflict between two different intp descriptions or even between someone who believes they are Ti or even INTP, I suppose would depend then on the observer and what they decide about it.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    The bolded parts might point to INTJ, whilest the rest of the post pretty much screams INTP. Could you explain your thoughts and feeling better on the bolded parts and give examples and your reasons of acting like that?
    I say I am very methodical in my thoughts and approach because I tend to break down situations or environments wherever I am. For instance, something arises that needs to be done and I've immediately mapped out the solutions and variations, weighed consequences, zeroed in on the most efficient way of accomplishing the task. I apply this to everything, from planning a trip to exactly how I will step out of the shower. I also, possibly, have OCD. I say possibly because I went to a psychologist for several sessions and this is what she seemed to think was going on, but I did not trust her judgement very well and stopped seeing her. I haven't done very much research about anxiety disorders and how they affect type, but that could be why, as an INTP, I do some things which may be more like INTJ? I don't know.

    I don't know if it's important to note, but I get overwhelmed by things like huge amounts of work or large messes. I cannot seem to just get started, I get extremely frustrated not knowing how I should approach it all and this sometimes results in me not doing anything, if I have a choice. I am not organized at home, but I am meticulous at work.

    I plan things way more than I do things. I really really enjoy sitting down and researching and coordinating and making plans and lists. I've mapped out dozens of future routes I might take and so far have not persued any of them! Planning things gives me a feeling of control and makes me less anxious. I think I need to plan in order to feel like an approach is mapped out in detail, or else I get overwhelmed and anxious. I do not like feeling like I am doing anything inefficiently, which can happen when you don't plan or take time to fully understand the situation and consequences of each action.

    Since I posted last, I have been doing more research into the 8 functions, and I do see myself slightly more as INTP, but doubts remain!

  7. #67
    Member Musicallogic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    I say I am very methodical in my thoughts and approach because I tend to break down situations or environments wherever I am. For instance, something arises that needs to be done and I've immediately mapped out the solutions and variations, weighed consequences, zeroed in on the most efficient way of accomplishing the task. I apply this to everything, from planning a trip to exactly how I will step out of the shower. I also, possibly, have OCD. I say possibly because I went to a psychologist for several sessions and this is what she seemed to think was going on, but I did not trust her judgement very well and stopped seeing her. I haven't done very much research about anxiety disorders and how they affect type, but that could be why, as an INTP, I do some things which may be more like INTJ? I don't know.

    I don't know if it's important to note, but I get overwhelmed by things like huge amounts of work or large messes. I cannot seem to just get started, I get extremely frustrated not knowing how I should approach it all and this sometimes results in me not doing anything, if I have a choice. I am not organized at home, but I am meticulous at work.

    I plan things way more than I do things. I really really enjoy sitting down and researching and coordinating and making plans and lists. I've mapped out dozens of future routes I might take and so far have not persued any of them! Planning things gives me a feeling of control and makes me less anxious. I think I need to plan in order to feel like an approach is mapped out in detail, or else I get overwhelmed and anxious. I do not like feeling like I am doing anything inefficiently, which can happen when you don't plan or take time to fully understand the situation and consequences of each action.

    Since I posted last, I have been doing more research into the 8 functions, and I do see myself slightly more as INTP, but doubts remain!
    Try to set aside your analysis for a moment and ask yourself if you had to live your life as a quintessential INTP or a quintessential INTJ which would you choose?

    I am not, however, suggesting that you change your behavior to suit one or the other. I think the answer might provide a little insight is all. Do remember the important thing is to be who you are. You might nail down a type but you are unique nonetheless. You are in the middle on the P/J spectrum. I am toward the middle on the I/E spectrum. Yet, we are both, INTPs (probably) despite some vastly different approaches to interacting with the world.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    I do see myself slightly more as INTP, but doubts remain!
    I am INTJ through and through but always tested as an INTP while living with my mother. She is an absolute nightmare of a P. Always drifting from one unrelated task to another, loses track of time, cannot ever be on time anywhere ever. It can be to the point where I can secretly set her alarm clock 1hr forward knowing that she will be late. She will get up, still have an extra hour up her sleeve and somehow have some last minute drama that makes her late once again. It's as if a known law of the universe would be contradicted if she were ever on time to anywhere. So of course while living with her I also picked up some of the losing track of time habits and the myriad little self induced forgetful drama's and thought they were my own. But after living on my own for a while my J came out and one by one these annoying habits were eliminated until I am my own punctual and efficient self. I didn't realise how different we are until years later I went back home to stay with her for a while. My God, I would rather give myself a root canal with a dremel than ever do that again!

    So my point is, if you are still living at home you could be under the shadow of learned family behaviours which mask your true tendencies. Or not.

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