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[INTP] INTP's and values/ethics

greenfairy

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INTP's: what are your values and ethics, and how did you go about determining them? How do you think this process differs from a feeling type?
 

Pseudo

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On how we're different from feelers. I think we have a greater tendency to doubt our beiliefs because we care about things being logical and also care aboutg able to prove this to others. My ESFJ friend can ignore evidence that goes against her beiliefs but I can't. I also think we have the tendency to take things to their logical extremes which causes us be very selective when it comes to defining our moral absolutes.
 

Rasofy

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There are no rigid rules for me. I don't do to other people what I wouldn't expect them to do to me. Notice I didn't say I don't do to other people what I wouldn't want them to do to me. There's a significant difference.
The keywords for me are fairness, balance, reciprocity.
F types seem to place more value into kindness and mercifulness.
 

greenfairy

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I wonder why this thread has only gotten 2 replies but the one I started on PerC has 52?

I agree with both of your assessments btw.
 

SoraMayhem

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On how we're different from feelers. I think we have a greater tendency to doubt our beiliefs because we care about things being logical and also care aboutg able to prove this to others. My ESFJ friend can ignore evidence that goes against her beiliefs but I can't. I also think we have the tendency to take things to their logical extremes which causes us be very selective when it comes to defining our moral absolutes.

This doesn't necessarily speak to T/F, I'm Fi dom but I'm not one to willfully ignore evidence. I'm less interested in beliefs than in truths. Taking things to logical extremes, however, is more of a game to me than a way of life.
 

The Great One

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I'm very strange. I have these values inside of me, but I don't know where they came from (they could be Fe or Fi). Anyway, the point is, if people are being hurt or if I view something as very wrong or unethical I must put a stop to them. I've been in the process of trying to reason out these unethical acts for a long time, because I think I could get farther if I was less ethical, but it's not working. The moral values are there to stay. I hate it
 

Pseudo

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This doesn't necessarily speak to T/F, I'm Fi dom but I'm not one to willfully ignore evidence. I'm less interested in beliefs than in truths. Taking things to logical extremes, however, is more of a game to me than a way of life.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting their value of emotions for "ignoring evidence". I'm thinking about an argument I had about jealousy with an ESFJ friend about her and her INFP husband. They both said that they are fine with limiting the amount of time the spend with the opposite gender for the sake of their partner's feelings. I argued that if you aren't doing anything and don't have ill intentions that you shouldn't have to limit your behavior. It came down to the idea that if she was feeling jealous she expects her partner to value those feelings and change their behavior. If I feel jealous I try to analyze my partners behavior to see if my feelings are founded or not and then change my emotional response. And we expect the same thing back. I guess feelings seem less real to me so when people use them to justify thoughts or actions it seems like they are ignoring reality while to her feelings are our experience of the world and therefore Are reality.
 

greenfairy

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Maybe I'm misinterpreting their value of emotions for "ignoring evidence". I'm thinking about an argument I had about jealousy with an ESFJ friend about her and her INFP husband. They both said that they are fine with limiting the amount of time the spend with the opposite gender for the sake of their partner's feelings. I argued that if you aren't doing anything and don't have ill intentions that you shouldn't have to limit your behavior. It came down to the idea that if she was feeling jealous she expects her partner to value those feelings and change their behavior. If I feel jealous I try to analyze my partners behavior to see if my feelings are founded or not and then change my emotional response. And we expect the same thing back. I guess feelings seem less real to me so when people use them to justify thoughts or actions it seems like they are ignoring reality while to her feelings are our experience of the world and therefore Are reality.

This is very interesting. In most situations I suit my feelings to reality. Relationships are kind of about feelings though, so to some extent they are the reality of the relationship. So I do both in these situations.
 

RaptorWizard

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INTPs are very cold and calculating people! Of course they don't have any values or ethics, and those that do probably aren't INTP!
 

greenfairy

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INTPs are very cold and calculating people! Of course they don't have any values or ethics, and those that do probably aren't INTP!

So they're all sociopaths? Or maybe this is you being sarcastic and me missing it.
 

INTP

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asking that question is like asking 'what do you know?'..
 

Philosorapteuse

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For me, my values and ethics definitely revolve around logic and even-handedness. In this context, that means being consistent in what I expect from people and from myself, being consistent in how I treat others (and more recently myself), delivering a basic level of respect to all humans regardless of who or what or where they are. If I apply it to them, I apply it to me. It means integrity, making decisions based on what I think/believe/forecast to be best in the world, not based on what's easiest for me or most pleasant. I'd rather be right than happy. It also, for me, means upholding a solid but spare moral framework that supports as many worldviews as possible without sacrificing structural integrity. Bits of it are flexible; bits of it aren't. As a default, it also means allowing space for right of reply/explanation when people have screwed up in my view, or have starkly differing viewpoints. I'm a relativist. There may be information there that I'm missing; without it how can I make a judgement? (Hello there Ne.)

Notably, individuals may forfeit their right to this minimum from me by violating the principles that uphold it -- and, crucially, not caring, not responding appropriately to being pulled up on it, and not making any attempt to apologise or change. If you smash the foundations supporting the floor you stand on, don't look surprised when you fall, and don't look upset when I don't rush to catch you. I don't get a trampoline any more than you do. Them's the rules.
 

raindancing

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Maybe I'm misinterpreting their value of emotions for "ignoring evidence". I'm thinking about an argument I had about jealousy with an ESFJ friend about her and her INFP husband. They both said that they are fine with limiting the amount of time the spend with the opposite gender for the sake of their partner's feelings. I argued that if you aren't doing anything and don't have ill intentions that you shouldn't have to limit your behavior. It came down to the idea that if she was feeling jealous she expects her partner to value those feelings and change their behavior. If I feel jealous I try to analyze my partners behavior to see if my feelings are founded or not and then change my emotional response. And we expect the same thing back. I guess feelings seem less real to me so when people use them to justify thoughts or actions it seems like they are ignoring reality while to her feelings are our experience of the world and therefore Are reality.

When a person does something that makes me feel a certain way, I always analyze my emotions and and the situation to determine whether my feelings are reasonable. I have to understand the reason behind it, view it as objectively as possible. I can't imagine ever insisting someone change their behavior to suit my feelings... I would only ask that if I had found a valid reason outside my feelings. I guess in some sense I'm using my feelings like a warning system. A feeling flares up, I focus on it until I understand precisely what caused it, then I decide if anything needs to be done about it. If I realize a feeling is based on something false then it will (normally) unceremoniously disappear.
 

Cellmold

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Im not an INTP or even NT I dont think, but ive always disliked the pretention of trying to induce pseudo-consideration into others based upon hypothetical people who may or may not exist although most likely they do exist somewhere in the world.

An example of this is: "Oh think about someone who is much worse off than you" or "there are people who would kill for your opportunities".

So? Im not them, so my priorities will not be the same, life isn't fair and while im not saying we shouldn't even the playing field a little, these empty and shallow guilt statements do little to further any fairness you might wish to induce into the world. If anything it is more reprehensible than not considering them at all, because you dont care about them either, you are merely using them as a scapegoat for your own personal agenda....ie: trying to guilt trip me or someone else into doing something we may not want or see reason to do, just because you believe it is 'appropriate' or 'right' to do so.
 

Priori

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I would like to see myself as fair and benevolent but I let others fight their own battles and don’t let them walk over me. I believe that the world is harsh place, but I’m not going to crusade to make things better. I fight for those I care about, and for myself but I don’t do any harm to outsiders that isn’t necessary.
 

Such Irony

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On how we're different from feelers. I think we have a greater tendency to doubt our beiliefs because we care about things being logical and also care aboutg able to prove this to others. My ESFJ friend can ignore evidence that goes against her beiliefs but I can't. I also think we have the tendency to take things to their logical extremes which causes us be very selective when it comes to defining our moral absolutes.

I agree with this.
 

Maxcool131

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I dont do what could fuck me up ie I dont sell drugs cause I dont wanna die. I am rather selfish and only do things if in the end they benefit me if I decided to rape somone ( I see it as disgusting atm) I wouldnt have some sort of rules or something along those lines to stop so me in summary: I do what I want if it benefits me and will sacrifice if in the end it benefits me.
 

raindancing

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I dont do what could fuck me up ie I dont sell drugs cause I dont wanna die. I am rather selfish and only do things if in the end they benefit me if I decided to rape somone ( I see it as disgusting atm) I wouldnt have some sort of rules or something along those lines to stop so me in summary: I do what I want if it benefits me and will sacrifice if in the end it benefits me.

dear god!

(Appealing to a higher moral source while stating my views. Efficiency; an INTP value. :D)
 
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