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View Poll Results: Who is more "robotic": INTJs or INTPs?

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  • INTPs

    42 38.53%
  • INTJs

    67 61.47%
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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I still think Te = part of how an INTJ's mind actually functions, even though it is an external manifestation of cognition and preference. Do you disagree?
    No, you're absolutely correct, it's just, the dominant makes up a larger part of who we are than the auxiliary.

    I mean, if you believe Dario Nardi's research, it's a much larger part.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Because I view Te as a very important aspect of the INTJ, and I place more emphasis on the external aspect/definition of 'robotic' than the internal, I voted INTJ.
    Wow... this is gunna be three times in one day... but I noticed this discussion proceeding along these lines, so I've got to say it...

    In the parlance of Ken Wilber, we are having an internal (left) vs external (right) issue.

    In his quadrant theory, he posits that there are four ways of looking at something:

    - individual and internal
    - individual and external
    - collective and internal
    - collective and external



    It seems that people who are taking an internal perspective are saying that INTPs are more robotic.

    And it seems that people who are taking an external persecptive are saying that INTJs are more robotic.

  2. #112
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    On one side are the people that look at the similarities between the descision making process of INTP's and INTJ's with computers/robots. And find that INTP's have many more similarities.

    On the other side are the people that say the more you appear like a robot, the more you are like a robot. Meaning INTJ's take the crown.

    Since obviously neither INTP and INTJ are in fact robots, both statements hold true. There is just a difference of semantics.

    However, judging by OP post, it seemed clear to me that the discussion Zara intended was the first semantic. That was solved by my first post in this thread, further discussion was probably unneccesary. Minus the drama, the main discussion right now is which semantic people value more themselves. So the topic should now be:

    What makes an INTJ/INTP more robotic in your opinion?
    - Their cognative processes?
    - Their appearance?

    Pick one and get on with it.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #113
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    01010100011010000110010100100000011001000110100101 11001101100011011101010111001101110011011010010110 11110110111000100000011011110110011000100000011000 11011011110110110101110000011101010111010001100101 01110010011100110010000001110110011100110010111000 10000001110010011011110110001001101111011101000111 00110010000001101001011100110010000001101001011011 10011101000110010101110010011001010111001101110100 01101001011011100110011100101110001000000010000001 00111101101110011001010010000001101101011010010110 01110110100001110100001000000110110101100001011010 11011001010010000001110100011010000110010101101101 00100000011100110111100101101110011011110110111001 11100101101101011100110010110000100000011000100111 01010111010000100000011101000110100001100101011110 01001000000110000101110010011001010010000001101110 01101111011101000010111000100000001000000100001101 10111101101101011100000111010101110100011001010111 00100111001100100000001000100111010001101000011010 01011011100110101100100010001000000110100101101110 00100000011000010010000001101100011011110110011101 10100101100011011000010110110000100000011011010110 00010110111001101110011001010111001000101100001000 00011000100111010101110100001000000110111101100110 01110100011001010110111000100000011001000110111101 10111000100111011101000010000000100010011001000110 11110010001000100000011000010110111001111001011101 00011010000110100101101110011001110010111000100000 00100000010100100110111101100010011011110111010001 11001100100000011001000110111101101110001001110111 01000010000001100001011000110111010001110101011000 01011011000110110001111001001000000110100001100001 01110110011001010010000001110100011011110010000000 10001001110100011010000110100101101110011010110010 00100010000001110100011011110010000001100010011001 01001000000111001001101111011000100110111101110100 01110011001011000010000001100010011101010111010000 10000001110100011010000110010101111001001000000110 00010111001001100101001000000111001001100101011100 01011101010110100101110010011001010110010000100000 01110100011011110010000000100010011001000110111100 10001000100000011100110110111101101101011001010111 01000110100001101001011011100110011100101100001000 00011011110111010001101000011001010111001001110111 01101001011100110110010100100000011101000110100001 10010101111001001000000110000101110010011001010010 00000110000101101110001000000110100101101110011000 01011011100110100101101101011000010111010001100101 00100000011011110110001001101010011001010110001101 11010000101110001000000010000001010011011010010110 11100110001101100101001000000111011101100101001000 00011000010110110001101100001000000110101101101110 01101111011101110010000001001010011100110010000001 10000101100011011101000111010101100001011011000110 11000111100100100000001000100110010001101111001000 10001000000110110101101111011100100110010100100000 01110100011010000110000101101110001000000101000001 11001100101100001000000111010001101000011010010111 00110010000001101101011000010110101101100101011100 11001000000111010001101000011001010010000001001001 01001110010101000100101000100000011101000110100001 10010100100000011100100110111101100010011011110111 01000010111000100000001000000100100101001110010101 00010100000111001100100000011000010111001001100101 00100000011101000110100001100101001000000110001101 10111101101101011100000111010101110100011001010111 001000101110

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    On one side are the people that look at the similarities between the descision making process of INTP's and INTJ's with computers/robots. And find that INTP's have many more similarities.

    On the other side are the people that say the more you appear like a robot, the more you are like a robot. Meaning INTJ's take the crown.

    Since obviously neither INTP and INTJ are in fact robots, both statements hold true. There is just a difference of semantics.

    However, judging by OP post, it seemed clear to me that the discussion Zara intended was the first semantic. That was solved by my first post in this thread, further discussion was probably unneccesary. Minus the drama, the main discussion right now is which semantic people value more themselves. So the topic should now be:

    What makes an INTJ/INTP more robotic in your opinion?
    - Their cognative processes?
    - Their appearance?

    Pick one and get on with it.
    Yes, you are right in that it completely depends on which way you're framing the issue, but the recognition of this fact is worthwhile (especially when you see how well it maps onto the Wilberian external vs internal model...).

  5. #115
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    It's why I changed the OP to "this is not about appearance, this is about how they are (i.e., how does their mind actually function)".
    If you are talking only about internal operation, I would definitely have to agree INTP. However, when you say how they "are" this tends to imply both internal function and external behavior. Ti is more "robotic" than Ni. However, on the robotic scale:
    Ti>Ni
    Ne<Te
    Si>Fi
    Fe<Se

    so just based on CF's alone they would be equal.

    Ti+Ne is more like a computer with constantly incoming data, while Ni+Te is more like a system of input data and instructions.

    But I think the word "robotic" necessarily implies something external because robots are designed to act. If you design a robot to think and not act, it is a computer. You can't really judge something to be like a robot based on internal function; unless you are simply referring to "follow orders." And we all know which of the two is better at that. Internally Ti+Ne is like a computer brain and Ni+Te is like a robot making decisions and organizing based on external truths.

  6. #116
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    01010100011010000110010100100000011001000110100101 11001101100011011101010111001101110011011010010110 11110110111000100000011011110110011000100000011000 11011011110110110101110000011101010111010001100101 01110010011100110010000001110110011100110010111000 10000001110010011011110110001001101111011101000111 00110010000001101001011100110010000001101001011011 10011101000110010101110010011001010111001101110100 01101001011011100110011100101110001000000010000001 00111101101110011001010010000001101101011010010110 01110110100001110100001000000110110101100001011010 11011001010010000001110100011010000110010101101101 00100000011100110111100101101110011011110110111001 11100101101101011100110010110000100000011000100111 01010111010000100000011101000110100001100101011110 01001000000110000101110010011001010010000001101110 01101111011101000010111000100000001000000100001101 10111101101101011100000111010101110100011001010111 00100111001100100000001000100111010001101000011010 01011011100110101100100010001000000110100101101110 00100000011000010010000001101100011011110110011101 10100101100011011000010110110000100000011011010110 00010110111001101110011001010111001000101100001000 00011000100111010101110100001000000110111101100110 01110100011001010110111000100000011001000110111101 10111000100111011101000010000000100010011001000110 11110010001000100000011000010110111001111001011101 00011010000110100101101110011001110010111000100000 00100000010100100110111101100010011011110111010001 11001100100000011001000110111101101110001001110111 01000010000001100001011000110111010001110101011000 01011011000110110001111001001000000110100001100001 01110110011001010010000001110100011011110010000000 10001001110100011010000110100101101110011010110010 00100010000001110100011011110010000001100010011001 01001000000111001001101111011000100110111101110100 01110011001011000010000001100010011101010111010000 10000001110100011010000110010101111001001000000110 00010111001001100101001000000111001001100101011100 01011101010110100101110010011001010110010000100000 01110100011011110010000000100010011001000110111100 10001000100000011100110110111101101101011001010111 01000110100001101001011011100110011100101100001000 00011011110111010001101000011001010111001001110111 01101001011100110110010100100000011101000110100001 10010101111001001000000110000101110010011001010010 00000110000101101110001000000110100101101110011000 01011011100110100101101101011000010111010001100101 00100000011011110110001001101010011001010110001101 11010000101110001000000010000001010011011010010110 11100110001101100101001000000111011101100101001000 00011000010110110001101100001000000110101101101110 01101111011101110010000001001010011100110010000001 10000101100011011101000111010101100001011011000110 11000111100100100000001000100110010001101111001000 10001000000110110101101111011100100110010100100000 01110100011010000110000101101110001000000101000001 11001100101100001000000111010001101000011010010111 00110010000001101101011000010110101101100101011100 11001000000111010001101000011001010010000001001001 01001110010101000100101000100000011101000110100001 10010100100000011100100110111101100010011011110111 01000010111000100000001000000100100101001110010101 00010100000111001100100000011000010111001001100101 00100000011101000110100001100101001000000110001101 10111101101101011100000111010101110100011001010111 001000101110

    01010011011001010110110101100001011011100111010001 10100101100011011100110010110000100000010011000100 11110100110000100001000011010000101000001101000010 10010001110110111100100000011000010111011101100001 0111100100101110001000000011101000101000
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #117
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    Don't blame me, blame the forum's algorithm...

    This is what the forum suggests at the foot of this thread:



    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
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  8. #118
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    No, you're absolutely correct, it's just, the dominant makes up a larger part of who we are than the auxiliary.

    I mean, if you believe Dario Nardi's research, it's a much larger part.



    Wow... this is gunna be three times in one day... but I noticed this discussion proceeding along these lines, so I've got to say it...

    In the parlance of Ken Wilber, we are having an internal (left) vs external (right) issue.

    In his quadrant theory, he posits that there are four ways of looking at something:

    - individual and internal
    - individual and external
    - collective and internal
    - collective and external



    It seems that people who are taking an internal perspective are saying that INTPs are more robotic.

    And it seems that people who are taking an external persecptive are saying the INTJs are more robotic.
    My Ti likes this!

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    01010011011001010110110101100001011011100111010001 10100101100011011100110010110000100000010011000100 11110100110000100001000011010000101000001101000010 10010001110110111100100000011000010111011101100001 0111100100101110001000000011101000101000
    01010111011010000110111100100000011011010110000101 10010001100101001000000111100101101111011101010010 00000110110001101111011100100110010000100000011011 11011001100010000001110100011010000110010100100000 01101001011011100111010001100101011100100110111001 10010101110100001111110011111100111111

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    so just based on CF's alone they would be equal.
    Not if you weight the functions with a coefficient for what % of cognition they tend to take up.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    But I think the word "robotic" necessarily implies something external because robots are designed to act.
    As you already said, it depends on how you frame it.

    As Fluffywolf said, the intention of the OP was for the internal frame of reference.

    However, it would not be accurate to say that I did not want to spur a discussion touching on the various frames of reference.


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