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[INTJ] The INTJ "Doorslam" aka INTJ Pigeonholing

PeaceBaby

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I couldn't think of a better word for what I am trying to describe, so am using a familiar one to get the conversation rolling on this.

The INTJ "doorslam" isn't a doorslam like the INFJ doorslam, because the INTJ will still interact with you, but there are some similar elements I think.

Let me describe what I mean. Once an INTJ has figured out "what you are for" you get categorized into that function and once you are slotted in that spot, it can be difficult to get yourself reassigned from that role.

Roles can be anything from what the person does best (clear speaker, intuitive coder, interface-creator, customer-satisfyer, gourmet cook) to relationship-based categories (friend, co-worker, love interest) whatever.

I think it's part of the reason that NFP's keep dancing around NTJ's throwing Ne everywhere - it prevents (especially) the INTJ from assigning them a role, because the INTJ takes in this new data and delays settling the NFP into a functional capacity.

Personally, I resist being categorized, and looking back I know in the past I have kept my INTJ coworkers "on their toes" by revealing skills at key moments to keep them guessing about me. I don't want them to ... decide. It's like I can feel them trying to.

Not that an INTJ won't revisit their system, but they will resist seeing you in a new light once they've decided on what you do. Sometimes, they won't go back either, although that's only happened to me personally one time and more in the context of interpersonal dynamic. Therein is the "doorslam". This is what this person IS. File to be appended ... maybe never?

Thoughts? In no way is this post a finished product, just some ideas that I'd like to refine with input.

And anyone, please suggest a better word for the thread title than the "doorslam"? :)

EDIT: Pigeonholing has been suggested, so pigeonholing it shall be!
 

StephMC

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Hahahah... I know exactly what you mean. I grew up with an oldest INTJ brother. As a silly example (and possibly just because he's a big brother), it's been really hard for him to see my anything other than a gawky little kid with braces. It's almost kind of funny to watch that "Doorslam" (Sorry, can't think of another word now!) occur in their little heads. It looks like an internal struggle when you're breaking out of the role they set aside for you. For instance, when my brother took to MBTI typing, he was convinced I was an INTP. Now that he's accepted I'm an ISTP, he instead just calls me "N/S ambidextrous" :p
 

Kalach

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Righto, so... "P=mercurial".

HA HAHAHA DANCE OUTA THAT BOX SUCKERS!
 

UniqueMixture

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Don't most people do this? I always felt ESxx tries to "size you up" the fastest, however they will allow new roles to form more easily.
 

SilkRoad

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LOL - when I saw this, my immediate reaction was to think of a sarcastic response along the lines of "nooo, only horrible INFJs do this, and they ALL do it ALL THE TIME!" :laugh:

Sorry. This sounds quite interesting and I'll keep an eye on this thread! :)
 

highlander

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Don't most people do this? I always felt ESxx tries to "size you up" the fastest, however they will allow new roles to form more easily.

This was my reaction as well. I think we all make judgments about people.

I couldn't think of a better word for what I am trying to describe, so am using a familiar one to get the conversation rolling on this.

The INTJ "doorslam" isn't a doorslam like the INFJ doorslam, because the INTJ will still interact with you, but there are some similar elements I think.

Let me describe what I mean. Once an INTJ has figured out "what you are for" you get categorized into that function and once you are slotted in that spot, it can be difficult to get yourself reassigned from that role.

Roles can be anything from what the person does best (clear speaker, intuitive coder, interface-creator, customer-satisfyer, gourmet cook) to relationship-based categories (friend, co-worker, love interest) whatever.

I think it's part of the reason that NFP's keep dancing around NTJ's throwing Ne everywhere - it prevents (especially) the INTJ from assigning them a role, because the INTJ takes in this new data and delays settling the NFP into a functional capacity.

Personally, I resist being categorized, and looking back I know in the past I have kept my INTJ coworkers "on their toes" by revealing skills at key moments to keep them guessing about me. I don't want them to ... decide. It's like I can feel them trying to.

Not that an INTJ won't revisit their system, but they will resist seeing you in a new light once they've decided on what you do. Sometimes, they won't go back either, although that's only happened to me personally one time and more in the context of interpersonal dynamic. Therein is the "doorslam". This is what this person IS. File to be appended ... maybe never?

Thoughts? In no way is this post a finished product, just some ideas that I'd like to refine with input.

And anyone, please suggest a better word for the thread title than the "doorslam"? :)

I do think I'm pretty open to new information coming in which may further shape my view of a person. INTJs are dominant perceivers and not dominant judgers. You're dealing with the general's aid. The general is in the tent. People perceive that we're not open to new information when in fact, that is not the case.

Do I door slam? Sure. It's very rare though. The person would have to do what I perceived as real harm to me. In that case, I hold a grudge basically forever. There was a person who came up in a conversation just yesterday in fact that I feel this way about. Te dom (probably ENTJ). I hate the guy's guts.
 

Qlip

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Maybe a good word for it is typecasting? I've experienced this before, but not with an INTJ.. I'll attempt to remember.
 

Eric B

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If I got this correctly, it seems like something ISTJ's do too. They have the dom. Si, and in this case, it works pretty much like the dom. Ni, where they go by their internal storehouse of data (and the aux. Te which judges the outside object and what to do with it), and then that's just "it" with them.
 

Chaotic Harmony

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Maybe a good word for it is typecasting? I've experienced this before, but not with an INTJ.. I'll attempt to remember.

That's what it sounds like to me... Kind of like when an actor/actress gets "typecast" and they end up forever doing comedies or stuck in the villain role...

As for my experience... I guess my INTJ sees me as the PC guru in the house and always bugs me when something doesn't immediately work... Then again, it's hard to tell because I am the only other adult in the house. ;) He does use me as his personal proofreader ALL THE TIME. :D But, again, I'm the only other adult. I don't think the 1-year old would be good at fixing the computer or proofreading!

I can't really say he has any specific person he labels as something and refuses to change his mind on.... Oooh, except our neighbors.... We had only been in our house for a few weeks and they made a comment to him that has forever sealed their fate with him. He will have nothing to do with them and thinks they are close-minded and snobby. I've actually chatted with them a few times since the incident and I haven't noticed that from them... So either he blew things out of proportion or they chilled out... But I can't get him to change his opinion of them!
 

CrystalViolet

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Hmm, don't NFP's kinda do the Ne spinning naturally any way (or for that matter any Ne doms and aux) we are all about the possibilities.
 

PeaceBaby

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Don't most people do this? I always felt ESxx tries to "size you up" the fastest, however they will allow new roles to form more easily.

This was my reaction as well. I think we all make judgments about people.

@bold: Not sure that's true. It's different, I can feel it. That's where I am interested to explore.

@boldpurple: I agree. Te-Si: "You know how to do task X? Good, get over there and do it man!"

-----

People perceive that we're not open to new information when in fact, that is not the case.

I hear you :)

In that case, I hold a grudge basically forever. There was a person who came up in a conversation just yesterday in fact that I feel this way about. Te dom (probably ENTJ). I hate the guy's guts.

What could possibly change your mind about him? Anything?

-----

Maybe a good word for it is typecasting? I've experienced this before, but not with an INTJ.. I'll attempt to remember.

Yes, like that, someone repped me "pigeon-holing" like that one too. Keep the suggestions coming!

If I got this correctly, it seems like something ISTJ's do too. They have the dom. Si, and in this case, it works pretty much like the dom. Ni, where they go by their internal storehouse of data (and the aux. Te which judges the outside object and what to do with it), and then that's just "it" with them.

It's like, the ISTJ is more about the individual tasks and when you add a skill, to me it seems they append their file more readily. INTJ seems more about the assemblage and what the whole can do. Adding a new data point doesn't necessarily append their belief about who / what you are ?? Somehow ?? It takes more than a couple of Si remembrances ...

Exploring ..... thanks all for your thoughts so far. As I said, I am putting this out there to refine or shoot down, rather than sharing any kind of conclusions.
 

Eric B

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It's like, the ISTJ is more about the individual tasks and when you add a skill, they append their file. INTJ seems more about the assemblage and what the whole can do. Adding a new data point doesn't necessarily append their belief about who / what you are ?? Somehow ??
OK, I guess with the ISTJ, it's about "proving yourself", "getting back into good graces", etc. and if you don't (to their satisfaction), then they keep the same belief about you. I guess I was never able to impress them (parents, etc), so it seemed to fit what you're saying.
 

Amargith

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Which INTJ was it that recently mentioned it's a side-effect of the Ni? Something like:'When we get a glimpse of a person, we can extrapolate and reasonably predict what their future behavior will be like, so that's that.'

Wrt NFPs, he said:' The thing about NFPs is that they're flaky and inconsistent in behavior, making us focus more and take more time to collect the data before an accurate prediction can be made.'
 

PeaceBaby

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OK, I guess with the ISTJ, it's about "proving yourself", "getting back into good graces", etc. and if you don't (to their satisfaction), then they keep the same belief about you. I guess I was never able to impress them (parents, etc), so it seemed to fit what you're saying.

Hmm yes, let me process this more ... share more too, I liked what you posted above.
 

PeaceBaby

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Which INTJ was it that recently mentioned it's a side-effect of the Ni? Something like:'When we get a glimpse of a person, we can extrapolate and reasonably predict what their future behavior will be like, so that's that.'

Wrt NFPs, he said:' The thing about NFPs is that they're flaky and inconsistent in behavior, making us focus more and take more time to collect the data before an accurate prediction can be made.'

Ha, that's interesting, spoken from the opposite vantage point. That first sentence could sound like an INFJ too, couldn't it, except the "that's that" takes a LOOOOOOT longer to conclusively form ....... INFJ's being so open to people-data.
 

Nicodemus

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Let me describe what I mean. Once an INTJ has figured out "what you are for" you get categorized into that function and once you are slotted in that spot, it can be difficult to get yourself reassigned from that role.

Roles can be anything from what the person does best (clear speaker, intuitive coder, interface-creator, customer-satisfyer, gourmet cook) to relationship-based categories (friend, co-worker, love interest) whatever.
There is something like a doorslam, too, though I would rather describe it as an icy shoulder: the complete withdrawal of respect and attention, people basically falling out of humanity.
 

Coriolis

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Do I door slam? Sure. It's very rare though. The person would have to do what I perceived as real harm to me. In that case, I hold a grudge basically forever. There was a person who came up in a conversation just yesterday in fact that I feel this way about. Te dom (probably ENTJ). I hate the guy's guts.
This is what I would call a doorslam: basically cutting someone out of your life, not wasting any more time/attention on them. I, too, use it sparingly and only in very egregious cases. I can recall only 2 people who have received this treatment from me.

What the OP describes is more like pigeonholing, as someone mentioned. It focuses on the utility or contribution of a person, not their individuality or humanity as Nicodemus neatly observed. When my default view of someone goes from utility to individuality, they have crossed an important threshold in our interaction/relationship.

Still, I will readily "upgrade" or expand the utilitarian view of someone. I am actually on the alert to discover what else someone can do, how they can be more useful, or contribute to more activities. I will not hesitate to put a minor player in charge of something once I realize they have the skills/experience to do it.

It is much harder and less common to change relationship category altogether. That is, from going from an incidental relationship (coworker, neighbor, relative) to a deliberate one (friend, romantic interest, even teacher/student). This requires my trusting the person with additional types of information, and being willing to involve them in different types of information.
 

Zarathustra

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I couldn't think of a better word for what I am trying to describe, so am using a familiar one to get the conversation rolling on this.

Might I recommend "pigeonholing".

INTJs are dominant perceivers and not dominant judgers. You're dealing with the general's aid. The general is in the tent. People perceive that we're not open to new information when in fact, that is not the case.

I like that metaphor.

Which INTJ was it that recently mentioned it's a side-effect of the Ni? Something like:'When we get a glimpse of a person, we can extrapolate and reasonably predict what their future behavior will be like, so that's that.'

Yeah, it's very easy for me to see based off very little behavior who someone is and how they will behave in many differents kinds of situations.

It's like, I see the archetype of who they are.

I think everyone does this; I just think Ni doms are better at it.

Wrt NFPs, he said:' The thing about NFPs is that they're flaky and inconsistent in behavior, making us focus more and take more time to collect the data before an accurate prediction can be made.'

Yes; that, and their willingness to make sexy time.

There is something like a doorslam, too, though I would rather describe it as an icy shoulder: the complete withdrawal of respect and attention, people basically falling out of humanity.

Yeah, there is, but it's related to the pigeonholing.

ETA:

What the OP describes is more like pigeonholing, as someone mentioned.

Well, with your post, I would've said jinx (despite the 10 minute difference).

Yes, like that, someone repped me "pigeon-holing" like that one too. Keep the suggestions coming!

But with this one, well, that's what I get for not reading the whole thread.

Truth be told, though, PB, I'd say three points make a trend.

I don't think you're gunna get a much better term for this than pigeonholing.
 

cascadeco

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Ha, that's interesting, spoken from the opposite vantage point. That first sentence could sound like an INFJ too, couldn't it,

Yes, it's very relevant to me, at least... and prob. INFJ's in general. Taking a few seemingly random data points about someone and extrapolating (often accurately) to other aspects of them/decisions they would make.

Peacebaby said:
except the "that's that" takes a LOOOOOOT longer to conclusively form ....... INFJ's being so open to people-data.

Except I'm not sure about this. Some things take longer to conclusively form, but I totally do the immediate extrapolation thing; maybe in some cases I have probabilities associated with it, though, so might give a few cases more time to get a little more data.

Tie that in with this -

Zarathustra said:
Yeah, it's very easy for me to see based off very little behavior who someone is and how they will behave in many differents kinds of situations.

It's like, I see the archetype of who they are.

I think everyone does this; I just think Ni doms are better at it.

Which I'd agree with.
 

Santosha

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I'm so glad you posted about this [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION]. It is exactly what I felt an INTJ do to me while we were partners. It *really* bothered me, and I don't mean to say that all INTJ's do it or would do it the same way or for the same reasons as he did, but I found the strange utilization and categorizing kinda depressing and limited. Did it have to be? No, and I fought it every step of the way. It's like the fi users will get ruffled when an fe user thinks they know them better than they know themselves. Well, my INTJ seemed to think he knew my potential better than I did myself. In hindsight, I wish I had more clarity while it was occuring because I would have embraced the insight he did have and disregarded the limitation. He once told me he was going to write a book on, well.. we'll call it "Huxleyisms" for now.. various perspectives and moral workings I had while we were together. Always boxing it in... Anyhow, years after our relationship INTJ popped back up to tell me that after more reflection and observation (of my facebook page and our shared friends that he seemed to follow my life with) I had "fallen off the chart - data no longer computed".. ah.. the beauty. Anyhow, I completely relate to being pidgeon-holed.

I wonder, is it so difficult for INTJ to have a value for someone they can't categorize or set a purpose to?
 
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