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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Is that an INTJ only phaenomena ? Cause otherwise I'ld have to type my whole SJ-office INTJ
    Of all the other perceiving functions, I think Si is going to be most like Ni: aggregating and comparing things in order to find the essence, the principle they share, etc.

  2. #72
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Of all the other perceiving functions, I think Si is going to be most like Ni: aggregating and comparing things in order to find the essence, the principle they share, etc.
    That makes sense
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I see a lot of Se going on with you, Marm. IOW, you enjoy interacting with whatever ideas or experiences that get thrown out on the message board: you offer nuggets of information on your past interactions with those same ideas and experiences. Cast the net wide and play with all the varieties of ideas that get captured. Aggregate and compare - a useful function.

    Do you think I'm ESFP instead of ISFP? Just curious, I always ask this, because some people think so.

    But yeah, it doesn’t necessarily go over well on a thread about Ni pigeonholing. It’s like I said about how Ni users don’t really appreciate Ne--they consider it dippy or flighty. In turn, the use of Se is probably going to seem diffuse, scattered, or arbitrary to an Ni-user.
    Interesting. But it's your tertiary or inferior funciton.

    As I understand it, Ni is trying to focus in tighter and tighter, finding the essence of things. Whereas Se is trying to cast a wider and wider net, pull in more and more outside things, in order to aggregate and compare and find categories. (Though neither of those is my function, so those descriptions may not be perfect.)
    YES THAT IS EXACTLY IT.

    Thank you for describing such an important function to me, so well. Not just anyone could do this, in fact I find a lot of descriptions of it imperfect so this seems like a great fit. It sounds like how my mind works intellectually, when I'm not valuing things ethically or emotionally.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    ... you will do this, head pat. With an INTJ, I might actually feel...like they're disgusted with me. Like they actually think they aren't like me or I should be better somehow.

    The dynamic is all wrong for me, I'm pretty sure. I always get the feeling I'm nice but don't especially matter, or don't matter at all.
    And that feeling would be correct. INTJs aren't known for head patting, back slapping or congratulating people for being...people. We don't get that whole need
    to affirm your humanity thing. In fact, we don't get that whole need to pay attention to reality thing if I'm being really honest. You're dealing with someone who's got a tenuous grip on what's happening around them most of the time alongside a lack of desire to illicit positive response from others. Of course that's going to look cold and judgmental. But it's pretty far from the mark on how we are personally feeling about you.

    If I look back on the two ISFJ individuals I've spoken about here's how it went for me.

    ISFJ makes some catty remark

    My internal thought process - ok, so two bitchy individuals with an apparent dislike for me. Whats to hang around for?
    Mental note now ensues to take no further notice of these people, ergo they no longer exist. My feeling about them is disinterest rather than disgust. Disgust would require me to think about them, take more mental notes and continue to observe them in order to fuel my disgust. That's a whole whack of my energy I can't be arsed spending upon people who have no relevance to my life. Given that they have already displayed a lack of regard for my feelings why would I want to garner their favour or know anything more about them than I already do?

    I have a lack of interest in humanity as the object of my attention. A natural curiosity about other people is something inherently absent in me. Absence though, doesn't equal hatred, disgust or any other feeling. It's just absence of desire to know you or anyone else better, I am happy with our passing acquaintance.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Do you think I'm ESFP instead of ISFP? Just curious, I always ask this, because some people think so.
    Got me. I really need to interact with people in person before I'll type them with confidence. Off-hand, I could even see you as an ESTP. That is, I register you as having the same kind of raw energy and bonhomie or enthusiasm as Halla74 and other ESTPs.

    But I'm just throwing out alternatives to show how difficult it is to pin these things down on a message board. I really find it just about impossible to come to a firm decision on these things on a message board.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    And that feeling would be correct. INTJs aren't known for head patting, back slapping or congratulating people for being...people. We don't get that whole need
    to affirm your humanity thing. In fact, we don't get that whole need to pay attention to reality thing if I'm being really honest. You're dealing with someone who's got a tenuous grip on what's happening around them most of the time alongside a lack of desire to illicit positive response from others. Of course that's going to look cold and judgmental. But it's pretty far from the mark on how we are personally feeling about you.

    If I look back on the two ISFJ individuals I've spoken about here's how it went for me.

    ISFJ makes some catty remark

    My internal thought process - ok, so two bitchy individuals with an apparent dislike for me. Whats to hang around for?
    Mental note now ensues to take no further notice of these people, ergo they no longer exist. My feeling about them is disinterest rather than disgust. Disgust would require me to think about them, take more mental notes and continue to observe them in order to fuel my disgust. That's a whole whack of my energy I can't be arsed spending upon people who have no relevance to my life. My continued focus upon these people will only make me feel bad. Whatever they consider is 'wrong' with me will not become right simply because I work to garner their favour. Given that they have already displayed a lack of regard for my feelings why would I want to garner their favour or know anything more about them than I already do?

    I have a lack of interest in humanity as the object of my attention. A natural curiosity about other people is something inherently absent in me. Absence though, doesn't equal hatred, disgust or any other feeling. It's just absence of desire to know you or anyone else better, I am happy with our passing acquaintance.
    That's sad. I would probably laugh at what they said, ignore it, or agree with it and play off of it. It must be so hard to be a type that doesn't interact well or play well with other people's social bullshit, you don't see it as fun or funny (I do, and I did at ten years of age, though admittedly had problems with particular individuals until I was about 20 and super confident) ...I never think about that, about INTJs feeling lost or hurt by what people say. I mostly picture them just not caring, being apathetic or cold.

    My natural curiosity about people defines me, so I can't fathom anything else, as your almost-opposite. I am not an ESFJ, so I am not SO much interested in people that it consumes me (believe me, SFPs play a more observational and comment role toward people than the deeply interactive one of the SFJ) ...but, yes, people are greatly important to me. I remember one of the reasons why I always felt like going crazy(as a concept, not a reality) scary, is because it might separate me from relationships with other people. I'm constantly consumed by things like social ideas and music and food and art, but mostly as how it relates back to PEOPLE. It's important as a separate entity because it has to do with people.

    Absence of desire is deadness and boredom to me, though. I interpret it as a lack of passion, a lack of interest. No wonder I'd rather an ISTJ who at least needs me on some level, even if not on such a consuming level as myself or an ESFJ.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Got me. I really need to interact with people in person before I'll type them with confidence. Off-hand, I could even see you as an ESTP. That is, I register you as having the same kind of raw energy and bonhamie or enthusiasm as Halla74 and other ESTPs.

    But I'm just throwing out alternatives to show how difficult it is to pin these things down on a message board. I really find it just about impossible to come to a firm decision on these things on a message board.
    I have gotten ESTP before!!!! Maybe I am just a very Te ESFP.

    Maybe I need to accept it, though I don't "feel" as an ESFP. My mother is an ESFP and says she is "shy." I look at her like she is insane, so maybe I am very much like her.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Absence of desire is deadness and boredom to me, though. I interpret it as a lack of passion, a lack of interest. No wonder I'd rather an ISTJ who at least needs me on some level, even if not on such a consuming level as myself or an ESFJ.
    I would agree with you on that one. However I didn't say I had a lack of desire for anything, only for people. My life is very rich and full of curiosity for things outside the realm of humanity. I adore the other inhabitants of the planet and find them fascinating, I am also a musician and love music for the sake of music. My curiosity is for the expression of the sound, it's a voice I understand and connect easily with. Words and people, not so much.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    That's sad. I would probably laugh at what they said, ignore it, or agree with it and play off of it. It must be so hard to be a type that doesn't interact well or play well with other people's social bullshit, you don't see it as fun or funny (I do, and I did at ten years of age, though admittedly had problems with particular individuals until I was about 20 and super confident) ...I never think about that, about INTJs feeling lost or hurt by what people say. I mostly picture them just not caring, being apathetic or cold.
    No, people rarely do think about INTJs feeling hurt, and I actually would not blame them, since when it happens to me, I prefer not to dwell on it myself. It just seems so insubstantial and pointless. Now if you provide substantive interference with something I am trying to do, it is quite another story.

    No, it is not at all hard to be largely ignorant of and uninvolved with other people's social BS. (If it were worthwhile, I would not characterize it as BS.) I find it remarkably freeing, based upon how bogged down I feel on the rare occasion when I get sucked into it. All the attention that other people devote to such things, I can devote to what is really important to me. For someone like you, the social interaction is important, so you pay attention to that. Just another instance of different strokes for different folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I'm constantly consumed by things like social ideas and music and food and art, but mostly as how it relates back to PEOPLE. It's important as a separate entity because it has to do with people.
    You might be surprised at how many of the goals of INTJs relate back to people, the whole "making the world a better place" idea. When I fix a problem, or do something to help myself get ahead, especially if it took alot of effort, my first thought is always: everyone should be able to do/have this. What can I do to make it easer for others? The fact that we (I) don't relate that well to people on an individual and personal level does not mean that we have no regard for humanity.

    In fact, that may the be saving grace of our form of pigeonholing. It is based on our best estimate of who you really are, and what you can do. We may be wrong, especially at the outset, but generally won't hold anyone to those arbitrary externally-fueled expectations that can be so limiting. We value your basic humanity, and want to see what you as an individual do with it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You might be surprised at how many of the goals of INTJs relate back to people, the whole "making the world a better place" idea. When I fix a problem, or do something to help myself get ahead, especially if it took alot of effort, my first thought is always: everyone should be able to do/have this. What can I do to make it easer for others?
    I have to say, yes this does apply to me in a convuluted way. I consider myself to be a fair minded person, I'm always seeking a kind of natural justice within any system. When I'm at work I'm always seeking to ensure all of us share the workload evenly for example, because to my mind it's unfair for anyone to shirk their responsibilities if they are being paid to be there. Some of the people I work with resent this aspect of me (I am the leader in my group), they dislike the fact they cannot do what they are accustomed to doing because I notice and insist they carry their load. They may curse me but they very likely do not understand that I require this of them for the benefit of the whole group and ultimately the benefit of the company we work for and it's customers. My focus is not just upon myself, but their focus is.

    So while I am largely disinterested in knowing the minutae of individuals and their personal lives I am looking after the system that supports the people and I do care about the workplace being a fair place for all concerned. I do care about the quality of the work we do and I do put people in positions that leverage their personal abilities. I care immensely that our customers are not only getting what they paid for but are also being treated with respect and courtesy. I care about the larger reputation that our company has as a direct result of what we are doing.

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